Cross-examined by Mr. Purves: I carry on business at Williamstown. I have built small vessels larger than the _Alert_, but never built a full rigged ship. It was some years ago that I was nearly drowned in the _Alert_. It was on the way to Geelong, when we were just the other side of Point Cook. The sea came in one side and out the other. I cannot say the decks were full, but the after part of the boat was flooded particularly. I was not frightened, as I am used to that sort of thing. Of course if I had been washed overboard, I might have lost my life, but I did not think there was any great danger so long as I had something to hold on by. The water came over both aft and amidships. It came over the port side from the mast to the poop, heavy seas, quite enough to wash you overboard. The fires were not put out, but some water went down the bunker holes. One of the bunker lids I saw off myself. I don’t know how it came off. The sea did not go on the poop. At the time I speak of, the _Alert_ had about eighteen inches freeboard. By freeboard I mean the distance from the water up to the level of the deck. It has nothing to do with the bulwarks. I still think that forty-four tons of cargo was too much for that vessel to go to sea with. Of course if it had been placed further foreward, it would have been better. _Q._—You appear to think that Captain Mathieson and his crew were a pack of lunatics to go outside with the _Alert_? _A._—I don’t think I ever said so. I said no sane man would send such a ship outside the Heads. _Q._—That is pretty well the same thing. What would be the greatest risk you would have taken in the _Alert_. Albert Park Lagoon, or the upper Yarra? _A._—She was more fit for the Lagoon if the water were deep enough. Even in the Upper Yarra she would not have been safe if she encountered the wash of a big steamer. (Laughter). _Q._—Where would you have put another mast? _A._—I would have put it just aft of the house on deck, and fitted it with a trysail and gaff. I am not prepared to say what size the sail should be. WILLIAM WHITE, examined by Mr. Williams, said: I am a shipbuilder, and have been engaged as such for fifty years. I carried on business at Williamstown for forty years, during which time I built many ships. I knew the _Alert_. The whole weight of the engines being aft, she sat very low in the water. Her bow was up. Stability at sea is gained in two ways, first by breadth and shallowness, requiring very little ballast, or by being deep and narrow. I should say that the _Alert_ required a good deal of ballast to make her stable. Forty-four tons of cargo in the main hatch would not give her sufficient stability. She would not be sea-worthy in my opinion with it. Forty-four tons in the forehold would help to lift her stern out of the water and put the bow down.