"Now we in the United States move the business for less than half the average cost of Europe. We pay from twice to four times the rate of wages, and we do it with an investment of about a third of their average. If we can do that on land, why can't we do it on the sea? I know that if the ships of the United States had the same care and the same opportunity that the ships of other nations have they would do it, and until then no subsidy, no ship subsidy, will ever enable them to compete with other business, because in principle it is wrong to tax all the business of the country--to put your hand into the public treasury and hand out to one particular business a cash subsidy in order that it may live. "I want to tell you that a steamship line that cannot live without a cash subsidy will make a mighty, mighty lean race with one. It ought to rest on a business foundation. That is the only reason for running ships, because they can be made to pay, and if we can make our railways pay and work at the low rates that the railways in the United States do carry and pay the scale of wages that they do pay, why can't we succeed on the high seas? If we can't, let us hand that business over to somebody who will do it cheaper and better; but I don't feel that the case is a hopeless one, but, on the other hand, I do feel that it would only limit the efforts of those who were trying to make and to build up a merchant marine for the United States; it would only limit their efforts to extend a subsidy to a few ships engaged in the business. FOREIGNERS GET SUBSIDY. "I remember on one occasion that I went home from here and there was no tonnage to move the stuff we had to send to the Orient. Absolutely no tonnage was available, and when I got home there was a reception to one of our public men, and the late Senator Mark Hanna was there. I took up in a few remarks the question of a subsidy, and I said. 'If we are going to have one, let us pay a subsidy for something that is going to do us some good. Let us pay a tonnage on the actual products that reach a new market.' "That would have done some good. The tonnage of the products that does not reach a new market, we wouldn't have anything to pay on that, and on that that does we could afford to pay. Now, we were driven out of the business on the Atlantic, but we might retain a hold upon the business of this ocean. Immediately there was a scheme for Congress for an appropriation, I think of $9,000,000, for ship subsidies, and they found that 80 per cent. of it would go to one line, under the bill that was being then drawn--and that line on the Atlantic Ocean--and I know that the men and most of the officers lived on the other side of the Atlantic, and the stock was owned on the other side of the Atlantic. Now that would not build up a merchant marine for us.