_Ly_. In the same way, all philosophers are investigating the nature of Happiness; they get different answers one Pleasure, another Goodness, and so through the list. It is probable that Happiness _is_ one of these; but it is also not improbable that it is something else altogether. We seem to have reversed the proper procedure, and hurried on to the end before we had found the beginning I suppose we ought first to have ascertained that the truth has actually been discovered, and that some philosopher or other has it, and only then to have gone on to the next question, _which_ of them is to be believed. _Her_. So that, even if we go all through all philosophy, we shall have no certainty of finding the truth even then; that is what you say. _Ly_. Please, please do not ask _me_; once more, apply to reason itself. Its answer will perhaps be that there can be no certainty yet--as long as we cannot be sure that it is one or other of the things they say it is. _Her_. Then, according to you, we shall never finish our quest nor be philosophers, but have to give it up and live the life of laymen. What you say amounts to that: philosophy is impossible and inaccessible to a mere mortal; for you expect the aspirant first to choose the best philosophy; and you considered that the only guarantee of such choice's being correct was to go through all philosophy before choosing the truest. Then in reckoning the number of years required by each you spurned all limits, extended the thing to several generations, and made out the quest of truth too long for the individual life; and now you crown all by proving success doubtful even apart from all that; you say it is uncertain whether the philosophers have ever found truth at all. _Ly_. Could you state on oath that they have? _Her_. Not on oath, no. _Ly_. And yet there is much that I have intentionally spared you, though it merits careful examination too. _Her_. For instance? _Ly_. Is it not said that, among the professed Stoics, Platonists, and Epicureans, some do know their respective doctrines, and some do not (without prejudice to their general respectability)? _Her_. That is true. _Ly_. Well, don't you think it will be a troublesome business to distinguish the first, and know them from the ignorant professors? _Her_. Very.