And now, being fresh and clean in body, Augusta, the stubborn heretical Picard, was to be made clean in soul. As the Jesuits were determined to do their work well, they laid down the strict condition that no one but themselves must be allowed to speak with the prisoners. For the rest the prisoners were treated kindly. The bedroom was neat; the food was good; the large, bright dining-room had seven windows. They had wine to dinner, and were waited on by a discreet and silent butler. Not a word did that solemn functionary utter. If the Brethren made a remark to him, he laid his fingers on his lips like the witches in Macbeth. The great debate began. The Jesuit spokesman was Dr. Henry Blissem. He opened by making a clean breast of the whole purpose of the interview. "It is well known to you both," said he, "for what purpose you have been handed over to our care, that we, if possible, may help you to a right understanding of the Christian faith." If the Jesuits could have had their way, they would have had Augusta's answers set down in writing. But here Augusta stood firm as a rock. He knew the game the Jesuits were playing. The interview was of national importance. If his answers were considered satisfactory, the Jesuits would have them printed, sow them broadcast, and boast of his conversion; and if, on the other hand, they were unsatisfactory, they would send them to the Emperor as proof that Augusta was a rebel, demand his instant execution, and start another persecution of the Brethren. Dr. Henry, made the first pass. "The Holy Universal Church," he said, "is the true bride of Christ and the true mother of all Christians." Augusta politely agreed. "On this is question," he said, "our own party thinks and believes exactly as you do." "No one," continued the doctor suavely, "can believe in God who does not think correctly of the Holy Church, and regard her as his mother; and without the Church there is no salvation." Again Augusta politely agreed, and again the learned Jesuit beamed with pleasure. Now came the tug of war. "This Holy Christian Church," said Blissem, "has never erred and cannot err." Augusta met this with a flat denial. If he surrendered here he surrendered all, and would be untrue to his Brethren. If he once agreed that the Church was infallible he was swallowing the whole Roman pill. In vain the doctor argued. Augusta held his ground. The Jesuits reported him hard in the head, and had him sent back to his cell. For two more years he waited in despair, and then he was brought to the White Tower again, and visited by two Utraquist Priests, Mystopol and Martin. His last chance, they told him, had now arrived. They had come as messengers from the Archduke Ferdinand and from the Emperor himself. "I know," said one of them, "on what you are relying and how you console yourself, but I warn you it will avail you nothing." "You know no secrets," said Augusta. "What secrets?" queried Mystopol.