_Q._—Assuming that she had an iron grating open about twelve feet athwart and four feet fore and aft, was that a proper thing to leave unprotected in a sea-going vessel of that kind? _A._—It was not in a vessel down by the heels as she was. In a gale of wind, or any heavy sea, everything would sweep over her, and fill the stoke-hole and engine room. In my opinion, provision ought to have been made for covering that grating before going outside. There ought to have been something over it, and a very good strong arrangement, such a thing as a skylight with flaps, that could have been opened and shut. A tarpaulin might stand a little time, but it would not stand many seas. I knew the alleyways between the bulwarks and the casing of the machinery. I also remember seeing the pantry window. It was open when I saw it in Hobson’s Bay, and they were passing food through it into the cabin. It was right enough for the Bay traffic, but for a sea-going vessel it should have been secured so that it would stand the same weight of water as the bulk-head. The glass should have been protected the same as port holes are protected, with a cast iron port either inside or outside. I cannot bring myself to think that a piece of glass is sufficient protection against a heavy sea. The hole that was there was big enough to fill the saloon with water, and cripple the ship. I could not say how many tons would go through, but when water runs through a hole in a ship, it goes with a great rush. With only a piece of glass between her and filling the saloon, it is a dead certainty she would founder. I never saw a bunker-hole with a lid resting by its own weight. It should be dropped into notches. Forty-four tons of cargo was not sufficient ballast for the _Alert_. At the same time I should say that one ship acts differently to another. One could go empty, while another would require a lot of cargo. The vessel that would go empty would have more beam and a flatter floor, or bottom, than the _Alert_. Amidships was the best place for the cargo, but I don’t think the _Alert_ had stability enough for a gale of wind even if she were fully loaded. I knew the late Captain Mathieson, and thoroughly agree with the statement that he was a skilful seaman and a good master of a vessel. If she had a second mast and canvas aft, the _Alert_ would have kept to the wind, head on to the sea, with less pressure on the screw propeller. The wooden awning, when the vessel was laid down on the starboard side, would assist in keeping her over to leeward. Cross-examined by Mr. Purves: The steamer I am in, the _Maitland_, is not flat. She is round, and is a sea-worthy vessel. She can go to sea in any ordinary weather. We trade to the Lakes, the same trade in which the _Alert_ was when she was lost. _Q._—The _Maitland_ knows how to roll, does she not? _A._—She does not.