since they perceive in themselves whether a thing be so or not. They were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, where all know by interior perception the truths which with us are called the truths of faith, for they are in enlightenment from the Lord; but it is otherwise with those who are in the spiritual kingdom. That the angelic spirits of that earth were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, I could also see from the flame whence their ideas flowed; for in the celestial kingdom the light is flaming, and in the spiritual kingdom it is bright white. They who are of the celestial kingdom, when the discourse is about truths, say no more than Yea, yea, or Nay, nay, and never reason about them whether they be so or not. These are they of whom the Lord says, "_Let your discourse be Yea, yea, Nay, nay; what is beyond this is of evil_" [(Matt. v. 37)]. Hence it was that those spirits said that they did not know what it is to have faith or to believe. They consider this to be like one saying to his companion, who with his own eyes sees houses or trees, that he ought to have faith or to believe that they are houses and trees, when he sees clearly that they are so. Such are they who are of the Lord's celestial kingdom, and such were these angelic spirits[aaa]. We told them that few on our Earth have interior perception, because in their youth they learn truths, and do not practise them. For man has two faculties, which are called the understanding and the will; they who admit truths no further than into the memory, and thence in some degree into the understanding, but not into the life, that is, into the will, these, inasmuch as they cannot be in any enlightenment or interior sight from the Lord, say that those truths ought to be believed, or that man ought to have faith in them; and they also reason about them whether they be truths or not; nay, they are not willing that they should be perceived by any interior sight, or by any enlightenment by the understanding. They say this, because truths with them are without light from heaven, and to those who see without light from heaven, falsities may appear as truths, and truths as falsities. Hence so great blindness has fallen on many on our Earth, that although a man does not practise truths or live according to them, they say nevertheless that he may be saved by faith alone, as if a man were not man from the life and according to it, but from the knowledge of such things as belong to faith, apart from the life. We afterwards conversed with them concerning the Lord, concerning love to Him, love towards the neighbour, and regeneration; saying, that loving the Lord consists in loving the precepts which are from Him, that is, in living according to them from love[bbb]; that love towards the neighbour consists in willing good and thence doing good to a fellow-citizen, to one's country, to the church, to the Lord's kingdom, not for the selfish end of being seen or acquiring merit, but from the affection of good[ccc].