Such cases as this conclusively show that Zen is not to be sought in ideas or words, but at the same time they also show that without ideas or words Zen cannot convey itself to others. To grasp the exquisite meaning of Zen as expressing itself in words and yet not in them, is a great art which is to be attained only after so many vain attempts. Tokusho who after such an experience finally came to realise the mystery of Zen, did his best later to give vent to his view which he had gained under Hōgen. It was while he was residing at the Monastery of Prajñā that he had the following “mondo” and sermon.[6.43] When Tokusho came out into the Hall, a monk asked him, “I understand this was an ancient wise man’s saying: When a man sees Prajñā he is tied to it; when he sees it not he is also tied to it. Now I wish to know how it is that a man seeing Prajñā could be tied to it.” Said the master, “You tell me what it is that is seen by Prajñā.” Asked the monk, “When a man sees not Prajñā, how could he be tied to it?” “You tell me,” said the master, “if there is anything that is not seen by Prajñā.” The master then went on: “Prajñā seen is no Prajñā, nor is Prajñā unseen Prajñā: how could one apply the predicate, seen or unseen, to Prajñā? Therefore it is said of old that when one thing is missing the Dharmakāya is not complete; when one thing is superfluous the Dharmakāya is not complete: and again that when there is one thing to be asserted the Dharmakāya is not complete; when there is nothing to be asserted the Dharmakāya is not complete. This is indeed the essence of Prajñā.” The “repetition” seen in this light may grow to be intelligible to a certain degree. VII