As, however, neither the pope nor the emperor would give way, they desired a conference, at which each would endeavour to convince the other. A day, therefore, was appointed, and the two potentates met in the palace of Bologna. Charles represented to Clement, that 'a great number of catholics desired and demanded a council as necessary to destroy the heresy of Luther, which was gaining strength every day, and to suppress the numerous disorders that existed in the Church.'[352] But the pope replied: 'If we assemble a council, and permit the protestants to be present and to question the doctrines sanctioned by the Church, they will attack them all, and numberless innovations will be the result. If, on the contrary, we do not allow them to speak, they will say that they are condemned unheard; they will leave the assembly, and the world will believe that we are in the wrong. As the protestants reject the decisions of past councils, how can we hope that they will respect the decisions of future councils? Do we not know their obstinacy? When we put forward the authority of the Church, do they not set the authority of Holy Scripture in its place? They will never acknowledge themselves defeated, which will be a great scandal. If the council decrees that the pope is above the council (which is the truth), the heretics will hold another, and will elect an anti-pope (Luther, perhaps). Sire, the remedy which you propose will give rise to greater evils than those which we have now to cure.'[353] The papacy in the sixteenth century had fallen into a state of inertia. It was active enough as a political power; but as a spiritual power it was nothing. It had great pretensions still, as far as appearances went; but it was satisfied if certain preferences and a certain pomp were conceded to it. It was afraid of everything that possessed any vitality, and feared not only those it called heretics, but even an assembly consisting of prelates of the Roman Church. And while the papacy was thus affected with a general weakness as regards spiritual powers, the Reformation was full of vigour and of life. It was a young warrior attacking a decrepid veteran. Besides these general causes, there were private motives which added to Clement's inactivity; but these he kept to himself. When he was alone in his chamber, he called to mind that his birth was not legitimate; that the means he had used to obtain the popedom had not been irreproachable; and that he had often employed the resources of the Church for his own interest ... in waging a costly war, for instance. All this might be brought against him in a council, and endanger his position. But as his position was dearer to him than the unity of the Church, he would grant nothing, and so reduced Charles to despair by his evasions.