The Council began to deliberate, and many of the members called for the secularization of a part of the monasteries. The partisans of the religious orders took up their defence, and acknowledged that there was room for reform. 'But,' they added, 'will you deprive of all asylum the pious souls who desire to quit the world, and lead a devout life to the glory of their Maker?' They tried even to invalidate in some points the testimony of the Visitors; but the latter declared that, far from having recorded lightly those scandalous facts, they had excluded many.[199] 'We have not reported certain public scandals,' they said, 'because they seem opposed to the famous charter of the monks—_Si non caste, tamen caute_.' Men of influence supported the Commissioners' conclusions; a few members of the Council were inclined to indulgence; even Cromwell seemed disposed to attempt the reform of whatever was susceptible of improvement; but many believed that all amendment was impossible. 'We must, above all things, diminish the wealth of the clergy,' said Dr. Cox; 'for so long as they do not imitate the poverty of Christ, the people will not follow their teaching. I have no doubt,' he added, with a touch of irony, 'that the bishops, priests, and monks will readily free themselves from the heavy burden of wealth of every kind, which renders the fulfilment of their spiritual duties impossible.'[200] Other reasons were alleged. 'The income of the monasteries,' said one of the privy-councillors, 'amounts to 500,000 ducats, while that of all the nobility of England is only 380,000.[201] This disproportion is intolerable, and must be put an end to. For the welfare of his subjects and of the Church, the King should increase the number of bishoprics, parishes, and hospitals. He must augment the forces of the State, and prepare to resist the Emperor, whose fleets and armies threaten us. Shall we ask the people for taxes, who have already so much trouble to get a living, while the monks continue to consume their wealth in laziness and debauchery? It would be monstrous injustice. The treasures which the convents derive from the nation ought no longer to be useless to the nation.'