So I am going to ask, Mr. Chairman, that the witness be excused and be given a chance to consult with his attorney and think the proposition over, and possibly he may decide to return and give us the information which we believe he has. Mr. MOULDER. I think that is a splendid suggestion Mr. Velde has made. You will be excused until tomorrow morning. You think this over, and in the meantime, if you wish to talk to any of the investigators or counsel or any member of the committee, we would be happy to talk to you. Give it serious thought. You will be excused until 9 o’clock in the morning. (Whereupon the witness was excused until 9 o’clock the following morning.) Mr. MOULDER. Call the next witness, Mr. Wheeler. Mr. WHEELER. Edmund Kroener. Mr. MOULDER. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony which you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. KROENER. I do. TESTIMONY OF EDMUND D. KROENER, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, C. CALVERT KNUDSEN Mr. WHEELER. Will you state your full name, please? Mr. KROENER. Edmund D. Kroener. Mr. WHEELER. Will counsel for the witness identify himself for the record? Mr. KNUDSEN. C. Calvert Knudsen. And may the record show that I am, Mr. Chairman, if you please, the treasurer of the Seattle Bar Association, and, at the request of that association and at the request of this gentleman, I am undertaking to represent him at this hearing inasmuch as he is financially unable to obtain other counsel. Mr. MOULDER. The record will so reflect the statement made by counsel. Mr. VELDE. May I make this remark? In connection with our hearings last June it was mentioned several times that the mere fact that an attorney represents a witness who might be a fifth amendment witness should be no reflection whatsoever on the attorney. And I am sure that is true of all the attorneys who have appeared here today. Mr. MOULDER. It is your duty to be here in the capacity in which you appear here today, in the honor of your own profession. Mr. KNUDSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. WHEELER. Will you spell your name, please? Mr. KROENER. K-r-o-e-n-e-r. Mr. WHEELER. Do you presently reside in Seattle? Mr. KROENER. Yes. Mr. WHEELER. What is your occupation, Mr. Kroener? Mr. KROENER. Work as a machinist. Mr. WHEELER. Are you presently employed? Mr. KROENER. No; I am not. Mr. WHEELER. Being a machinist, are you a member of any union? (The witness confers with his counsel.) Mr. KROENER. I wish to invoke, on answering that, the fifth amendment, on the grounds that it may incriminate me. Mr. WHEELER. Are you a member of the International Association of Machinists, A. F. of L.? Mr. KROENER. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment. Mr. WHEELER. Have they instituted charges against you to remove you from membership in the union? Mr. KROENER. Again I wish to invoke the fifth amendment.