Mr. O’CONNELL. Well, she said she sat in Communist Party meetings with me when all present were Communists. Likewise with the Progressive Party. I mean there could have been a Progressive Party meeting called and all that, and all of the people there present might have been Communists to her knowledge but certainly not to mine. She is careful; I mean she qualifies, she says, “I understood to be one or at least so sympathetic as to make no actual difference.” She had doubts. Mr. WILLIS. At this point that is what this has just about boiled down to in my mind, Mrs. Hartle’s description. This morning I sat here and listened to the period of time when you were chairman of the Committee To Defeat the Mundt Bill. You became associated with or had business relations with Mr. Silberstein, Mr. Stone, Rose Clinton, Tom Buchanan, Ruth Rifkin, Elizabeth Sasuly, Tilla Minowitz, Carl Marzani, Lillian Clott, and Alexander Wright. In each instance you had an explanation, although we read from the record that others had said that these people were Communists, that you did not know about them. Well, that is a little difficult but it could have happened. I am not reproaching you, but you become a little more indifferent when you will not accept, for instance, the pronouncement of a court, the highest court of the land, that Rosenbergs were Communists. You refuse to accept that; you still are not convinced. To me her description is becoming pretty good, to be so tolerant as to be completely indifferent. Probably your mind is shut to having a standard to satisfy you as to whether a group is or is not Communist. I am entirely frank about it. Listening all morning my mind at this time, even more and more as we go along, is that maybe your sincere feeling--how did she describe that? Mr. O’CONNELL (reading): I understand him to be one also, or at least so sympathetic as to make no actual difference. Mr. WILLIS. Well, if she had used the words “so indifferent,” it would have been pretty close to my frank analysis of your testimony. Mr. VELDE. Let me say I concur with your statement, Mr. Chairman. Mr. WILLIS. If she had substituted the word “indifferent,” it would have been a close analysis of our appreciation of your testimony up to now. I look forward, however, to your contest with Mr. Budenz in that lawsuit that you mentioned. Mr. O’CONNELL. I want to assure you that there is a difference. One can be a sincere American liberal and still fight for the political rights and civil rights of Communists. I can be non-Communist and yet not anti-Communist, just like I can be a Democrat and yet not an anti-Republican.