"I lost sight of him for a bit, and found him again on Tower Hill, speaking to a big crowd. His platform was a dray. When he stopped speaking and jumped down from the dray, I introduced myself to him, said I was mightily interested, and that I wanted to interview him. "'All right,' said he; 'begin!' "If he were not modest, I was. 'Not here,' said I, 'let's go where we can talk in quiet.' So I tucked him into a hansom and, followed by a yelling crowd which we soon left out of sight, we drove to a club of mine in the West End, where we had a long talk. The immediate results were--oh, well, some articles in which I tried to show the world the real John Burns." "That was the discovery?" asked Meredith. "Burns calls it so. He was no more modest about being discovered then than he is now. He has a way of telling you straight what he thinks, or what he 's at, or of telling you that he won't tell you." {232} "I 've noticed that. John Burns, are you under any delusions about popularity? I think you are not." "I 'm not," said Burns. "When the crowds are cheering their loudest, I am asking myself how soon they will hang my carcass on the outer walls." "A cheering and useful inquiry," observed Meredith. "My impression is that you have a long course to cover. But leaders of the people are wisest when they remember that there _are_ outer walls for the hanging of carcasses." "The confessions of Radicals strengthen the soul," said I. "These are not confessions; they are articles of faith," exclaimed Burns. I intimated that my faith in a political sense was as a grain of mustard seed, human nature being what it was, and political stupidity unconquerable. Gladstone being mentioned by our host, I asked Burns to tell his Gladstone story, that is, what the G.O.M. said to him, and what he said to the G.O.M. at their first meeting. "It was in the lobby of the House of Commons," Burns explained, "soon after my election. You know I was not what might be called a worshipper of that wonderful man. A bit too independent for his liking, perhaps." "And the only thing he would dislike, perhaps," said Meredith, smiling. "Well, you know. I was in the lobby, talking with a front-bench Liberal when the great man passed. The member with whom I was talking {233} took me up to him and presented me. The G.O.M. bowed, and we shook hands. He said: "'It gives me pleasure, Mr. Burns, to see you here, to welcome you to the House of Commons.' "I replied, 'Believe me, sir, my pleasure is equal to your own!' "A hit, a palpable hit!" cried Meredith. "I can see Gladstone drawing in his horns." "He stiffened a bit, and we went our ways. That is all there is of the story," added Burns. "The one about the docker and the matches is not bad," said I. "Let me have it," begged Meredith.