MR. WILSON: I think you are right on that. MR. O'ROURKE: Mr. Gilbert Smith's report of yesterday indicated a pecan was not satisfactory with him in New York State, and that may bear out the comment that Mr. Hardy has made. MR. GERARDI: Well, I think that is true enough, myself. In southern Illinois I find that the bitternut hickory root for shellbark or shagbark don't seem to be satisfactory at all. With the shagbark on pecan, the variety of shagbark makes a difference. Some varieties of shagbark, and shellbark hickories seem to do all right, and then again others don't. It's going to need further study to determine what varieties will stand on pecans, what will stand on bitter hickories, or what will stand on regular ovata stock. I think that the nurseryman's wisest way is to use stocks of the same species as the scion and then he is on the safe side. Because the bitter hickory grows faster, the nurseryman may find it advantageous to grow the bitter hickory stock in preference to the other two. MR. O'ROURKE: The bitter stock makes a hickory big enough to graft in two or three years. MR. GERARDI: In two or three, and four or five for the shagbark. Shagbark or shellbark varieties on bitternut may grow for three or four years and then die. The pecan does well on the bitter hickory and the bitter hickory on the pecan, but I have no reason to grow any bitter hickory because I don't like the nut. I think it's a waste of time to fool with it that way. As far as the hybrid pecans are concerned, the pecan root is certainly the right stock to use on all hybrids. They grow very satisfactorily and bear well. MR. WHITFORD: I have Gerardi and McAllister hybrids growing on pecan, and the Downing overgrows the pecan. MR. O'ROURKE: To summarize some of this information that we have gathered this morning on root stocks, it seems that different clones behave differently on the same stock. That is true, we know, with other plants, such as apple. Instead of saying that shagbark is not compatible with pecan, perhaps we should say that the Davis or the Wilcox variety of shagbark is not compatible with a certain type of pecan. It's going to take years of effort to find out the truth of the matter. MR. WARD: Sometimes you will find that a two-year-old scion, if you can get a dormant bud coming, is better than the matured wood from last year. I'd just like to get an opinion from some of the growers what they use for topworking stocks for grafting. MR. FERGUSON: I think one thing quite important is to get scion wood that has a good layer of wood around the pith, whether one-year wood or two-year wood. At the base of the year's growth it will have a lot more wood in it. At the tip the wood around the pith is thin. MR. O'ROURKE: Some years ago Dr. MacDaniels stated that a good scion may be made with the tip of the scion in the one-year wood and the base of the scion in the two-year wood.