He and members of his society were holding Sunday afternoon meetings for the purpose of reading the writings and discussing such questions as might arise, which meetings I attended. I said to the reverend gentleman that I would like to have this wine question discussed at our next meeting, to which he assented. At that meeting, I brought up the medical and scientific aspects of the question, and endeavored to show that fermented wine was a dangerous poison, it having destroyed vast multitudes of the human race, and that it performed no use when taken into the stomach of healthy men and women; and, consequently, that it is wrong to drink a wine which does so much harm. The clergyman tried to justify its use by quoting certain comparisons which Swedenborg had made between the apparent combat which takes place during fermentation and the combat which ensues during the regeneration of man, and the clearness of resulting wine after fermentation and that of truth in the mind after regeneration, and also of the purity of alcohol after it has been through certain processes, which he named, compared with pure truth. But we know that pure alcohol cannot be used as a beverage, and therefore it is certain that these comparisons were simply as to the clearness of fermented wine after fermentation, and the purity of alcohol after being purified; and that they have nothing to do with the inherent quality of these fluids, or their ability to affect man when he drinks them. We had an earnest discussion of the question from our different standpoints, but neither of us was satisfied with the result; and, consequently, we adjourned the discussion of the subject until the next Sabbath afternoon. In the meantime, the clergyman prepared a discourse, which he delivered on Sunday morning, in which he endeavored to show that fermentation was caused by an influx of angels from the highest heaven into the juice of the grape, stirring it up and cleansing it from "inherent impurities." Providentially, during the week, I had obtained a copy of Swedenborg's work on the "Angelic Wisdom Concerning the Divine Love and Wisdom," in which he teaches that all poisonous substances which do harm and kill man derive their life from or through hell. When we came together in the afternoon to discuss the question, we were about as far apart as it was possible to be, as the reader can readily see. He took the ground that fermentation was caused by influx from the highest heaven, and I took the ground that it was caused by influx from the lowest hell, and we had an earnest discussion; but he certainly did not satisfy me nor many of his audience, if any, that his position was true. How could he? for there is no doubt but that fermented wine has harmed and killed more of the human race in ages past than any other poison. As a result of that discussion, within my knowledge, fermented wine was never again used at the sociables of that society during my residence in Detroit.