[Footnote 67: Ueberweg, in a learned Dissertation, Ueber die Platonische Weltseele (pp. 52-53), seeks to establish a greater distinction between the Phædrus, Phædon, and Timæus, in respect to the way in which Plato affirms the separate substantiality of Ideas, than the language of the dialogues warrants. He contends that the separate substantiality of the Platonic Ideas is more peremptorily affirmed in the Timæus than in the Phædrus. But this will not be found borne out if we look at Phædrus, p. 247, where the affirmation is quite as peremptory as that in the Timæus; correlating too, as it does in the Timæus, with [Greek: Nou=s] as the contemplating subject. Indeed the point may be said to be affirmed more positively in the Phædrus, because the [Greek: u(peroura/nios to/pos] is assigned to the Ideas, while in the Timæus all [Greek: to/pos] or local existence is denied to them (p. 52 B-C). Sensible objects are presented in the Phædrus as faint resemblances of the archetypal Ideas (p. 250 C), just as they are in the Timæus: on the other hand, [Greek: to\ metalamba/nein tou= noêtou=] occurs in the Timæus (p. 51 A), equivalent to [Greek: to\ mete/chein], which Ueberweg states to be discontinued.] We must assume (says Plato, after a certain brief argument which he himself does not regard as quite complete) the Forms or Ideas of Fire, Air, Water, Earth, as distinct and self-existent, eternal, indestructible, unchangeable--neither visible nor tangible, but apprehended by Reason or Intellect alone--neither receiving anything else from without, nor themselves moving to anything else. Distinct from these--images of these, and bearing the same name--are the sensible objects called Fire, Water, &c.--objects of sense and opinion--always in a state of transition--generated and destroyed, but always generated in some place and destroyed out of some place. There is to be assumed, besides, distinct from the two preceding--as a third _fundamentum_--the place or receptacle in which these images are localised, generated, and nursed up. This place, or formless primitive receptivity, is indestructible, but out of all reach of sense, and difficult to believe in, inasmuch as it is only accessible by a spurious sort of ratiocination.[68] [Footnote 68: Plato, Timæus, p. 52 B. [Greek: au)to\ de\ met' a)naisthêsi/as a(pto\n logismô=| tini\ no/thô|, mo/gis pisto/n.]] [Side-note: Primordial Chaos--Effect of intervention by the Demiurgus.]