"You have started the idea, be content, leave Belgrano to carry it out if he can. As Miranda says, the time has come; all that I have done so far is preparative, now I am going to begin my work--join me." "And your object?" "A republic." "We are not yet ready for complete independence." "So long as Spaniards rule over us we shall never be more ready than we are now." "How do you propose to begin?" "I wish to form a small secret committee of men who are ready to dare everything for the accomplishment of our one object." "Have you spoken to any one else of it?" "You are the first." "Then let me be the last also, Carlos. We are so strong that we have no need of any secrecy, what we want is publicity to educate the people into a knowledge of their own rights and of their own power. To form a committee as you suggest is the first step towards a conspiracy, and will give a pretext for forcible measures of repression, which can only end in civil war. Let us openly demand that half the seats in the Cabildo be given to Creoles, and that Creoles be henceforth eligible for any post under government." "And then we will throw open our ports to the world and invite the English to come and trade with us?" "Just so. With our own men in every corporation all necessary reforms are possible." "And Spaniards are going to give up their monopolies and let us introduce all manner of innovations, and be brothers to us so long as we let their flag fly at the fort, and shout 'Viva La Reina!' or 'Viva el Rey!' whichever it may chance to be." "They will submit to necessity." "When they see it they will, but until we show it them they will never see it. No, my brother, we must first assert, seize by force, if necessary, the power of governing ourselves, we must first appoint a government of our own, then we may safely welcome all Spaniards who choose to join us, and give them equal rights with ourselves. If we content ourselves with asking as privileges for what are our natural rights, they may yield them to us now that they have no strength to struggle against us, but it will only be to take them back again so soon as they find themselves strong enough to do it." * * * * * While Don Alfonso and his two visitors were speaking in their way of the meeting of the previous evening, the same subject was under discussion from a very different point of view in the private apartments of his Excellency the Viceroy. Marshal Liniers had also two visitors that evening, Martin Alzaga and Don Roderigo Ponce de Leon.