Q. I believe something has been said about the extraordinary cost at which these railroads handle these postal cars. I would like to have you help me reach a conclusion from that. How many railway postal cars have you on your system?--A. I do not know how many we do have. By the CHAIRMAN: Q. Does your statement show?--A. No, sir; it does not. By Mr. CATCHINGS: Q. How much do you receive from the government for the railway postal cars?--A. We receive certain compensation for cars over a given length. Q. You stated, I believe, the gross revenue to you for these cars?--A. We have a great many that we do not receive any revenue from the government for their use. Q. I want to know what your revenue is from the postal cars?--A. I can not tell you. Q. You can furnish that amount?--A. Yes, sir. Q. I wish you would furnish this commission a statement showing the gross revenue to your system of road derived from these postal cars; and then I wish you would furnish a statement showing what the cost to you is of maintaining those cars, keeping them in repair, what the estimated cost to you is of hauling them, and the number of cars?--A. I will give you all that you desire so far as I can. By Mr. LOUD: Q. You stated, Mr Kirkman, that you were Vice-President of the Chicago and Northwestern?--A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you General Manager?--A. No, sir. Q. What is your particular business in connection with the railroad?--A. I have charge of the local finances and accounts of the company. Q. You are not prepared to answer technically, then, questions that might be propounded to you, as has been developed in the examination by Mr. Catchings, about the cost of the operation of a car and the cost of the transportation of a ton of freight, passengers, etc?--A. _I am as well prepared to answer the question as anyone. There is no one, as I said before, who knows what the cost is or can tell you definitely, simply for the reason that it is utterly impossible to fix the cost as between passengers and freight, for instance._ Q. What is the use of our investigation, then?--A. I am here before this commission; my time here, perhaps, represents ten dollars or ten cents. _What am I going to charge it to?_ In this case perhaps to mail. In many expenses of railroads there are questions impossible to determine as to what expenditures should be charged to. You may make, as the General has, a comparison between the Flint and Pere Marquette, what he thinks is an approximate statement of cost; it may be more, and it may not. For instance, the Government of the United States requires that the mail shall be carried on fast trains-- Q You are going into quite an argument. You ought to be able to tell what it cost to haul the mail.--A. _No, sir; I can not._