There is no question of the entire reasonableness and truth of this. In his talk with President Kruger Sir Alfred said of the Uitlanders: "A vast number of them are British subjects. If we had an equal number of British subjects and equally large interests in any part of the world, even in a country which is not under any conventional obligations to Her Majesty's Government, we should be bound to make representations to the Government in the interests of Her Majesty's subjects, and to point out that the intense discontent of those subjects stood in the way of the cordial relations which we desire to exist between us. I know that the citizens of the South African Republic are intensely jealous of British interference in their internal affairs. What I want to impress upon the President is that if the Government of the South African Republic of its own accord, from its own sense of policy and justice, would afford a more liberal treatment to the Uitlander population this would not increase British interference, but enormously diminish it. If the Uitlanders were in a position to help themselves they would not always be appealing to us under the convention." When the conference was about to close President Kruger said: "Our enfranchised burghers are probably about 30,000, and the newcomers may be from 60,000 to 70,000, and if we give them the franchise to-morrow we may as well give up the Republic. I hope you will clearly see that I shall not get it through with my people." Further along, when President Kruger insisted upon it that the too numerous newcomers would end the Republic, Sir Alfred asked what the President meant by "outvoting in the Volks Raad," and the President answered: "I mean this; that if they are all enfranchised then they would at once form the majority of the whole population, and the majority of the enfranchised burgher, according to our law, must be listened to by the Volks Raad; since in a republic we cannot leave the sovereign voice out of account. Then if they once get the vote, and the majority come to the Volks Raad saying that the members of the Raad should be in proportion to the number of electors, the Volks Raad would be all up with them." [Sidenote: Ireland and The Transvaal] Sir Alfred and President Kruger in course of conversation had an outing on "the Irish question," the President saying: "I say that by taking the oath of naturalization, whereby they become entitled to elect members for the Second Raad, they become lawful burghers, and at that moment they get more than they get in their own country. In their own country they cannot, within such a short period, choose ministers, magistrates, or similar officials; but they do this with me, and are they not to be regarded as full burghers because they cannot yet elect certain officials? The only difference is that they cannot yet exercise the full franchise. In England, for instance, the Irish also have not their own administration."