MANDERS. What do you say hangs about you? MRS. ALVING. Ghosts! When I heard Regina and Oswald in there, it was as though ghosts rose up before me. But I almost think we are all of us ghosts, Pastor Manders. It is not only what we have inherited from our father and mother that “walks” in us. It is all sorts of dead ideas, and lifeless old beliefs, and so forth. They have no vitality, but they cling to us all the same, and we cannot shake them off. Whenever I take up a newspaper, I seem to see ghosts gliding between the lines. There must be ghosts all the country over, as thick as the sands of the sea. And then we are, one and all, so pitifully afraid of the light. MANDERS. Aha—here we have the fruits of your reading. And pretty fruits they are, upon my word! Oh, those horrible, revolutionary, freethinking books! MRS. ALVING. You are mistaken, my dear Pastor. It was you yourself who set me thinking; and I thank you for it with all my heart. MANDERS. I! MRS. ALVING. Yes—when you forced me under the yoke of what you called duty and obligation; when you lauded as right and proper what my whole soul rebelled against as something loathsome. It was then that I began to look into the seams of your doctrines. I wanted only to pick at a single knot; but when I had got that undone, the whole thing ravelled out. And then I understood that it was all machine-sewn. MANDERS. [_Softly, with emotion._] And was that the upshot of my life’s hardest battle? MRS. ALVING. Call it rather your most pitiful defeat. MANDERS. It was my greatest victory, Helen—the victory over myself. MRS. ALVING. It was a crime against us both. MANDERS. When you went astray, and came to me crying, “Here I am; take me!” I commanded you, saying, “Woman, go home to your lawful husband.” Was _that_ a crime? MRS. ALVING. Yes, I think so. MANDERS. We two do not understand each other. MRS. ALVING. Not now, at any rate. MANDERS. Never—never in my most secret thoughts have I regarded you otherwise than as another’s wife. MRS. ALVING. Oh—indeed? MANDERS. Helen——! MRS. ALVING. People so easily forget their past selves. MANDERS. I do not. I am what I always was. MRS. ALVING.