Very well. Then let me show you——[_He goes to the chair where his travelling-bag lies, takes out a packet of papers, sits down on the opposite side of the table, and tries to find a clear space for the papers._] Now, to begin with, here is——[_Breaking off._] Tell me, Mrs. Alving, how do these books come to be here? MRS. ALVING. These books? They are books I am reading. MANDERS. Do you read this sort of literature? MRS. ALVING. Certainly I do. MANDERS. Do you feel better or happier for such reading? MRS. ALVING. I feel, so to speak, more secure. MANDERS. That is strange. How do you mean? MRS. ALVING. Well, I seem to find explanation and confirmation of all sorts of things I myself have been thinking. For that is the wonderful part of it, Pastor Manders—there is really nothing new in these books, nothing but what most people think and believe. Only most people either don’t formulate it to themselves, or else keep quiet about it. MANDERS. Great heavens! Do you really believe that most people——? MRS. ALVING. I do, indeed. MANDERS. But surely not in this country? Not here among us? MRS. ALVING. Yes, certainly; here as elsewhere. MANDERS. Well, I really must say——! MRS. ALVING. For the rest, what do you object to in these books? MANDERS. Object to in them? You surely do not suppose that I have nothing better to do than to study such publications as these? MRS. ALVING. That is to say, you know nothing of what you are condemning? MANDERS. I have read enough _about_ these writings to disapprove of them. MRS. ALVING. Yes; but your own judgment—— MANDERS. My dear Mrs. Alving, there are many occasions in life when one must rely upon others. Things are so ordered in this world; and it is well that they are. Otherwise, what would become of society? MRS. ALVING. Well, well, I daresay you’re right there. MANDERS. Besides, I of course do not deny that there may be much that is attractive in such books. Nor can I blame you for wishing to keep up with the intellectual movements that are said to be going on in the great world—where you have let your son pass so much of his life. But—— MRS. ALVING. But? MANDERS.