"Did you get the impression that that was what he meant." "Certainly I did." "Could he at that time or any time later have spoken to others in the same way." "Most undoubtedly--to hundreds." "Tim Crean had told me things that Alexander Sullivan had said," went on the witness, "and among them that this man was a traitor. The word traitor to an Irishman's visor calls up a terrible vengeful feeling. It does in me, the Irishmen know what informers are and do not feel leniently toward them. The impression that I got from Mr. Sullivan's talk was that this man should be removed from our ranks in some way or another; that he was a menace to the cause and to the success of the objects which we were trying to accomplish. I must say that at that time and since, Mr. Sullivan was not alone in the opinion as to the removal of men of that description--that is, the removal of them from our ranks, not by death, but that we should get them out of our organization. There was nothing more laudable, considering the actions of Le Caron, who as is now proven to have been Mr. Sullivan's friend, according to the evidence now before you. Le Caron was introduced to me on the evening of that conversation by Mr. Sullivan as a man worthy of our confidence and of the highest character, and coming from such a source, it being understood that Sullivan occupied a high office in the order, and considering the confidence with which he was looked up to by the Irish people at that time, myself, being nothing but a plebian, I could not but believe what he said." "Did you believe that Dr. Cronin was a traitor." "Yes; Mr. Sullivan gave me that information; that was his idea. He did not give me any proof, but considering his position, I could not do otherwise than take his ipse dixit for it. I will say, however, that up to the recent revelations I certainly had no idea at all that Mr. Sullivan could have been the man he is now represented to be. I must say in justice to myself I had no idea that he could have come as near being an accessory to this diabolical 'removal,' as he is now represented to be by the circumstantial evidence before you." "Is there anything in your obligation and the constitution of the order that would make you believe that you ought to remove a man if your executive ordered you to do so." "No sir." "That you ought to take life?" "No sir, I would not do it if the order came to me." "Do you think that a man of less principle or brains might do so?" "I certainly believe now, to my sorrow, that such might be the result." After this witness had left the stand it was proven by the evidence of the Sergeants of the Chicago Avenue Police Station that, for some time prior to May the 4th, Coughlin and O'Sullivan, the iceman, were in daily communication over the telephone, and that the latter had several times sent messages to the Detective to come over to his house, his office, or his barn. ALEXANDER SULLIVAN'S SPECULATIONS.