whence we came, and what was our business there? And we said, "to be instructed concerning marriages, whether they are holy with you, as they were with the ancients who lived in the golden, silver, and copper ages; or whether they are not holy." And they replied, "What do you mean by holiness? Are not marriages works of the flesh and of the night?" And we answered, "Are they not also works of the spirit? and what the flesh does from the spirit, is not that spiritual? and all that the spirit does, it does from the marriage of good and truth. Is not this marriage spiritual, which enters the natural marriage of husband and wife?" To this the wise ones, so called, made answer, "There is too much subtlety and sublimity in what you say on this subject; you ascend far above rational principles to spiritual: and who, beginning at such an elevation, can descend thence, and thus form any decision?" To this they added with a smile of ridicule, "Perhaps you have the wings of an eagle, and can fly in the highest region of heaven, and make these discoveries: this we cannot do." We then asked them to tell us, from the altitude or region in which the winged ideas of their minds fly, whether they knew, or were able to know, that the love of one man with one wife is conjugial love, into which are collected all the beatitudes, satisfactions, delights, pleasantnesses, and pleasures of heaven; and that this love is from the Lord according to the reception of good and truth from him; thus according to the state of the church? On hearing this, they turned away, and said, "These men are out of their senses; they enter the ether with their judgement, and scatter about vain conjectures like nuts and almonds." After this they turned to us, saying, "We will give a direct answer to your windy conjectures and dreams;" and they said, "What has conjugial love in common with religion and inspiration from God? Is not this love with every one according to the state of his potency? Is it not the same with those who are out of the church as with those who are in it, with Gentiles as with Christians, yea, with the impious as with the pious? Has not every one the strength of this love either hereditarily, or from bodily health, or from temperance of life, or from warmth of climate? By medicines also it may be strengthened and stimulated. Is not the case similar with the brute creation, especially with birds which unite in pairs? Moreover, is not this love carnal? and what has a carnal principle in common with the spiritual state of the church? Does this love, as to its ultimate effect with a wife, differ at all from love as to its effect with a harlot? Is not the lust similar, and the delight similar? Wherefore it is injurious to deduce the origin of conjugial love from the holy things of the church." On hearing this, we said to them, "You reason from the stimulus of lasciviousness, and not from conjugial love; you are altogether