The Count then expressed his confidence in these assurances, said he had been well informed of the characters, both of Mr Jay and Mr Carmichael, (who was present at the conference,) and said, that he considered them as _les hommes honnêtes_, and that no consideration could have prevailed upon him to have treated with men who did not sustain that reputation. The Count then proceeded to the second point, viz. with respect to the treaty in contemplation between Spain and America. He began by observing, that he now spoke as a Minister, and as such, that he would be as candid and frank as he had just been speaking as a private man; and that it was always his disposition to do so with those from whom he expected the same conduct. He then proceeded to observe, that there was but one obstacle from which he apprehended any great difficulty in forming a treaty with America, and plainly intimated that this arose from the pretensions of America to the navigation of the Mississippi. He repeated the information, which the Count had received from M. Mirales, that Congress had at one time relinquished that object; that he also knew from the same source, that afterwards they had made it an essential point of the treaty. He expressed his uneasiness on this subject, and entered largely into the views of Spain, with respect to the boundaries. (He mentioned Cape Antonio and Cape ----, and expressed their resolution if possible, of excluding the English entirely from the Gulf of Mexico.) They wished to fix them by a treaty, which he hoped would be perpetual between the two countries. He spoke amply of the King's anxiety, resolution, and firmness on this point, and insinuated a wish that some method might be fallen upon to remove this obstacle. He observed, that the King had received all his impressions with respect to the necessity of this measure, previous to his being in place, and appeared to regard it as a point from which his Majesty would never recede, repeating that, still however he was disposed to give America all the aid in his power, consistent with the situation of his affairs, to distress the common enemy; that this point being insisted on, it would be necessary for the Court of Spain to obtain the most accurate knowledge of local circumstances, with which he supposed Mr Jay and his constituents were more fully apprised than his Majesty's Ministers could be. That for this purpose they had already written to the Havana and Louisiana, in order to obtain all the necessary information, which he gave reason to believe they had not yet received. He dwelt on the necessity of this information previous to any treaty, and expressed his own regret, that ways and means could not be found to obviate or overcome this impediment.