Two hearings of the matter in dispute have been reported to us. The scene of the first was the court of the Lateran Palace, presumably either of classic style, or showing the slim circular pillars, delicate round arches and varicoloured stone inlay work of the Cosmati school. Innocent presided, and with him were all the curia. Raymond Roger of Foix, the centre of all eyes with his handsome person and ruddy face, spoke first. He denied his own guilt and that of Raymond of Toulouse. They had only defended themselves, he said, against brigands come to rob them under a pretence of crusading. The younger Raymond, so he maintained, had never even been accused of any crime. He himself, upon Innocent’s express request, had handed over the Castle of Foix, with its mighty ramparts, to Cardinal Peter. If the place, now held by de Montfort, was not given back, then no faith was to be put in solemn treaties. Fulk of Toulouse replied fiercely, recalling Raymond Roger’s crimes, his persecution of the Church and his protection of heresy, the Crusaders he had mutilated and massacred. Raymond Roger replied more fiercely still. A Toulousain knight sprang up, shouting that if they had known that so much fuss would be made over mutilated Crusaders, then even more would have lacked eyes and noses; at which those listening groaned and murmured as a shocked audience will. The Count of Foix then attacked Bishop Fulk. Not content with the lying songs and bitter satires he had written as a troubadour, the Bishop of Toulouse, he said, had caused more than five thousand deaths, including children, behaving himself more like Antichrist than like a Roman legate. Innocent mildly answered that Raymond Roger had stated his own case well, but had “a little” understated the Church’s case against him. Last, a representative spoke for the heir of Beziers and Carcassonne, son to that Trencavel who had died in prison in 1209, claiming that as the father had been assassinated by de Montfort and the Crusaders, the Pope, to “save his own honour,” must return the viscounty to the son. “Justice shall be done,” replied Innocent and retired to his private apartments.