The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2Madison, James
History
The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2
Madison, James
Constitutional law -- United States; Constitutions -- United States; United States. Constitution
M^r Gov^r Morris thought the blank ought to be filled in a twofold way,
so as to provide for the event of the ratifying States being contiguous
which would render a smaller number sufficient, and the event of their
being dispersed, which w^d require a greater number for the introduction
of the Government.
M^r Sherman observed that the States being now confederated by articles
which require unanimity in changes, he thought the ratification in this
case of ten States at least ought to be made necessary.
M^r Randolph was for filling the blank with "nine" that being a
respectable majority of the whole, and being a number made familiar by
the constitution of the existing Congress.
M^r Wilson mentioned "eight" as preferable.
M^r Dickinson asked whether the concurrence of Congress is to be
essential to the establishment of the system, whether the refusing
States in the Confederacy could be deserted--and whether Congress could
concur in contravening the system under which they acted?
M^r Madison, remarked that if the blank should be filled with "seven"
"eight," or "nine," the Constitution as it stands might be put in force
over the whole body of the people, tho' less than a majority of them
should ratify it.
M^r Wilson. As the Constitution stands, the States only which ratify can
be bound. We must he said in this case go to the original powers of
Society. The House on fire must be extinguished, without a scrupulous
regard to ordinary rights.
M^r Butler was in favor of "nine." He revolted at the idea, that one or
two States should restrain the rest from consulting their safety.
M^r Carrol moved to fill the blank with "the thirteen," unanimity being
necessary to dissolve the existing confederacy which had been
unanimously established.
M^r King thought this amend^t necessary, otherwise as the Constitution
now stands it will operate on the whole though ratified by a part only.
Adjourned.
FRIDAY AUGUST 31^{ST} 1787. IN CONVENTION.
M^r King moved to add to the end of Art: XXI the words "between the said
States" so as to confine the operation of the Gov^t to the States
ratifying it.
On the question
N. H. ay. Mas. ay. C^t ay. N. J. ay. P^a ay. M^d no. Virg^a ay.
N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
M^r Madison proposed to fill the blank in the article with "any seven or
more States entitled to thirty three members at least in the House of
Representatives according to the allotment made in the 3 Sect: of Art:
4." This he said would require the concurrence of a majority of both the
States and the people.
M^r Sherman doubted the propriety of authorizing less than all the
States to execute the Constitution, considering the nature of the
existing Confederation. Perhaps all the States may concur, and on that
supposition it is needless to hold out a breach of faith.
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