The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2Madison, James
History
The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2
Madison, James
Constitutional law -- United States; Constitutions -- United States; United States. Constitution
M^r King moved to strike out the "exception of Treaties of peace" from
the general clause requiring two thirds of the Senate for making
Treaties.
M^r Wilson wished the requisition of two thirds to be struck out
altogether. If the majority cannot be trusted, it was a proof, as
observed by M^r Ghorum, that we were not fit for one Society.
A reconsideration of the whole clause was agreed to.
M^r Gov^r Morris was ag^{st} striking out the "exception of Treaties of
peace." If two thirds of the Senate should be required for peace, the
Legislature will be unwilling to make war for that reason, on account of
the Fisheries or the Mississippi, the two great objects of the Union.
Besides, if a majority of the Senate be for peace, and are not allowed
to make it, they will be apt to effect their purpose in the more
disagreeable mode, of negativing the supplies for the war.
M^r Williamson remarked that Treaties are to be made in the branch of
the Gov^t where there may be a majority of the States without a majority
of the people. Eight men may be a majority of a quorum, & should not
have the power to decide the conditions of peace. There would be no
danger, that the exposed States, as S. Carolina or Georgia, would urge
an improper war for the Western Territory.
M^r Wilson. If two thirds are necessary to make peace, the minority may
perpetuate war, against the sense of the majority.
M^r Gerry enlarged on the danger of putting the essential rights of the
Union in the hands of so small a number as a majority of the Senate,
representing perhaps, not one fifth of the people. The Senate will be
corrupted by foreign influence.
M^r Sherman was ag^{st} leaving the rights established by the Treaty of
peace, to the Senate, & moved to annex a proviso that no such rights
sh^d be ceded without the sanction of the Legislature.
M^r Gov^r Morris seconded the ideas of M^r Sherman.
M^r Madison observed that it had been too easy in the present Congress,
to make Treaties altho' nine States were required for the purpose.
On the question for striking "except Treaties of peace"
N. H. ay. Mass. ay. C^t ay. N. J. no. P^a ay. Del. no. M^d no.
V^a ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
M^r Wilson & M^r Dayton move to strike out the clause requiring two
thirds of the Senate for making Treaties; on which,
N. H. no. Mas. no. C^t div^d. N. J. no. P^a no. Del. ay. M^d no.
V^a no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. no.
M^r Rutlidge & M^r Gerry moved that "no Treaty be made without the
consent of 2/3 of all the members of the Senate"--according to the
example in the present Cong^s.
M^r Ghorum. There is a difference in the case, as the President's
consent will also be necessary in the new Gov^t.
On the question
N. H. no. Mass. no. (M^r Gerry ay.) C^t no. N. J. no. P^a no.
Del. no. M^d no. V^a no. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
M^r Sherman mov^d that no Treaty be made without a Majority of the whole
number of the Senate. M^r Gerry seconded him.
Public-domain text, read in full here on John Shaqi.
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