The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2Madison, James
History
The Journal of the Debates in the Convention which Framed the Constitution of the United States, May-September 1787. Volume 2
Madison, James
Constitutional law -- United States; Constitutions -- United States; United States. Constitution
On the suggestion of M^r Dickinson the words, "provided that each State
shall have one representative at least,"--were added nem. con.
Art. IV. Sect. 4. as amended was agreed to con. nem.
Art. IV. Sect. 5. taken up.
M^r Pinkney moved to strike out Sect. 5. As giving no peculiar advantage
to the House of Representatives, and as clogging the Gov^t. If the
Senate can be trusted with the many great powers proposed, it surely may
be trusted with that of originating money bills.
M^r Ghorum. was ag^{st} allowing the Senate to _originate_; but only to
_amend_.
M^r Gov^r Morris. It is particularly proper that the Senate sh^d have
the right of originating money bills. They will sit constantly, will
consist of a smaller number, and will be able to prepare such bills with
due correctness; and so as to prevent delay of business in the other
House.
Col. Mason was unwilling to travel over this ground again. To strike out
the Section, was to unhinge the compromise of which it made a part. The
duration of the Senate made it improper. He does not object to that
duration. On the Contrary he approved of it. But joined with the
smallness of the number, it was an argument against adding this to the
other great powers vested in that body. His idea of an Aristocracy was
that it was the govern^t of the few over the many. An aristocratic body,
like the screw in mechanics, work^g its way by slow degrees, and holding
fast whatever it gains, should ever be suspected of an encroaching
tendency. The purse strings should never be put into its hands.
M^r Mercer, considered the exclusive power of originating Money bills as
so great an advantage, that it rendered the equality of votes in the
Senate ideal & of no consequence.
M^r Butler was for adhering to the principle which had been settled.
M^r Wilson was opposed to it on its merits without regard to the
compromise.
M^r Elseworth did not think the clause of any consequence, but as it was
thought of consequence by some members from the larger States, he was
willing it should stand.
M^r Madison was for striking it out; considering it as of no advantage
to the large States as fettering the Gov^t and as a source of injurious
altercations between the two Houses.
On the question for striking out "Sect. 5, Art. IV".
N. H. no. Mass. no. C^t no. N. J. ay. P^a ay. Del. ay. M^d ay.
V^a ay. N. C. no. S. C. ay. Geo. ay.
Adj^d.
THURSDAY, AUG^{ST} 9. IN CONVENTION
Art: IV. Sect. 6. M^r Randolph expressed his dissatisfaction at the
disagreement yesterday to Sect. 5. concerning money bills, as
endangering the success of the plan, and extremely objectionable in
itself; and gave notice that he should move for a reconsideration of the
vote.
M^r Williamson said he had formed a like intention.
Public-domain text, read in full here on John Shaqi.
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