"Shaw is a Protestant--a Congregationalist--who once was a preacher and now is a banker, but he is the leader of the Irish party, and speaks for the Bishops, as did Butt, who also was a Protestant. Parnell, too, is a Protestant, curiously enough. Biggar was, but has turned. I don't think popular feeling is engaged; but you must either govern through and with the priests--or by force." Mr. Shaw's day of influence was nearly ended. The revolutionary party--for they aimed at, and effected nothing less than, a revolution--led by Parnell in the House and by Davitt in the country, were sweeping away the staunch adherents of pure constitutionalism, among whom Shaw and Butt were to be numbered. The Irish party was not the only one which contained conflicting elements: 'Manning attached more importance to an understanding with me and Chamberlain than to one with Hartington, and sided with us in the conflict which followed the scene between Hartington and Chamberlain on July 7th.' Sir Charles describes the occurrence, though somewhat toning down a sufficiently stormy passage: 'What occurred was this: James, who was Hartington's right-hand man, and absolutely in his confidence, had started a debate on flogging, and came to us and told us that he quite agreed in our view that much should be made of it, and that it offered a good opportunity for getting rid of flogging in the Army, and then went away to dinner. Our men kept up the debate with a good deal of violence of language; and then Hartington, strolling in after dinner, and hearing that there was this obstruction, made a violent attack upon poor Hopwood (the Queen's Counsel, afterwards Recorder of Liverpool, a member of the Radical Club) and on those acting with him, for obstruction. Chamberlain, much nettled by this attack upon our men below the gangway for doing only that which they had been told to do, got up and ironically referred to Hartington as "the late leader," and I was stung, by Fawcett clumsily siding with Hartington, into supporting Chamberlain and Hopwood. 'My talents of diplomacy were called into requisition after the Hartington-Chamberlain quarrel, and I was very proud of managing to get through nineteen clauses of the Irish University Bill on the next day, July 8th, stopping all divisions except one, in which Parnell and I told together, and got Hartington into our lobby, which was, I think, a triumph of conciliation.