In the interval came the meeting of the States of Pontoise (17th August, 1561), and their first step was to confirm the minutes of the Orleans meeting. The chancellor, who had grown in wisdom and toleration, said in his opening speech: “I do not understand those who desire to exclude the new religion from the kingdom--to issue edict after edict against it. Our only concern is, to learn whether the interests of the state are best served by the permission, or by the prohibition of the meetings of the Calvinists. To decide this, we need not inquire into their doctrine; for supposing the Reformed religion to be bad, is that a sufficient reason for proscribing its professors? Is it not possible to be a good subject without being a Catholic or even a Christian? Can not fellow-citizens, differing in religious opinions, still live in harmony? We have met not to establish articles of faith, but to regulate the state.” The orator of the nobility demanded, with the almost unanimous consent of the order, that all religious controversies should be decided in conformity with Holy Scripture;[237] that heresy should no longer be considered an offense against the state; and that the Apostles’ and the Athanasian Creeds should be the only test of orthodoxy. The nobles also called for reforms in the judicature and in the government, but their scope belongs rather to the political than the religious history of the times. The orator of the Tiers État demanded still greater changes: such as a national council, under the royal presidency, in which all the controverted questions should be decided by the Word of God; and a cessation of persecution, on the ground that it was unreasonable to force any man to do what his conscience condemned. The Third Estate farther proposed that cardinals and bishops should be disqualified for seats in the royal council; that the States-General should be convened every two years; and that the Reformed should enjoy full liberty of worship, either in the existing churches, or in such as they might build for themselves. “As both religions have the same foundation,” said one speaker, “there is no reason why they should hate and persecute one another. Perseverance in penal enactments will kindle a fire which no power under heaven can extinguish.” After suggesting various ecclesiastical reforms, he continued: “If the king wants money, let him do as they have done in Germany and England--take the money that makes the Church luxurious. One-third of what it possesses is enough for its wants. The people are ruined and can pay no more taxes.” The idea of paying their debts and getting rich by seizing the property of the clergy pleased even the orthodox; but the churchmen caught the alarm, and set every engine at work to ward off the threatened blow. The property of the Church was valued at one hundred and twenty millions. Out of this it was proposed to allot forty-eight millions, which would produce a revenue of four millions