Soc. And so they should be. Do you imagine that one thing is good and another beautiful? Do not you know that relatively to the same standard all things are at once beautiful and good? (8) In the first place, virtue is not a good thing relatively to one standard and a beautiful thing relatively to another standard; and in the next place, human beings, on the same principle (9) and relatively to the same standard, are called "beautiful and good"; and so the bodily frames of men relatively to the same standards are seen to be "beautiful and good," and in general all things capable of being used by man are regarded as at once beautiful and good relatively to the same standard--the standing being in each case what the thing happens to be useful for. (10) (8) Or, "good and beautiful are convertible terms: whatever is good is beautiful, or whatever is beautiful is good." (9) Or, "in the same breath." Cf. Plat. "Hipp. maj." 295 D; "Gorg." 474 D. (10) Or, "and this standard is the serviceableness of the thing in question." Aristip. Then I presume even a basket for carrying dung (11) is a beautiful thing? (11) Cf. Plat. "Hipp. maj." 288 D, 290 D; and Grote's note, loc. cit. p. 381: "in regard to the question wherein consists {to kalon}?" Soc. To be sure, and a spear of gold an ugly thing, if for their respective uses--the former is well and the latter ill adapted. Aristip. Do you mean to assert that the same things may be beautiful and ugly? Soc. Yes, to be sure; and by the same showing things may be good and bad: as, for instance, what is good for hunger may be bad for fever, and what is good for fever bad for hunger; or again, what is beautiful for wrestling is often ugly for running; and in general everything is good and beautiful when well adapted for the end in view, bad and ugly when ill adapted for the same. Similarly when he spoke about houses, (12) and argued that "the same house must be at once beautiful and useful"--I could not help feeling that he was giving a good lesson on the problem: "how a house ought to be built." He investigated the matter thus: (12) See K. Joel, op. cit. p. 488; "Classical Review," vii. 262. Soc. "Do you admit that any one purposing to build a perfect house (13) will plan to make it at once as pleasant and as useful to live in as possible?" and that point being admitted, (14) the next question would be: (13) Or, "the ideal house"; lit. "a house as it should be." (14) See below, IV. vi. 15.