In a long conversation, Count Apponyi, in answer to my questions, made the following statements as to Hungary's attitude in the war, which he defined as being a conflict between Orientalism and Occidentalism: "You who live in America do not have to consider or define the differences between Occidentalism and Orientalism. You are geographically isolated from Orientalism and are so axiomatically Occidental that the issue is not yet a vital one for you. You do not have to search for concepts and definitions in this regard. The same would be true of the Chinese who are so extremely Oriental--who are so near the South Pole, so to speak--as to find thinking about the matter unnecessary. They take their Orientalism as a matter of course, as do you your Occidentalism. "But we of Hungary who are on the geographical frontier of Occidentalism, who are, in these present centuries, Occidentalism's contenders in the everlasting battle between East and West, and who find ourselves at death-grips with Russia, the present-day aggressive representative of Orientalism, we, I say, have need to consider such matters and to find concepts upon which to build. "Thus I, as a Hungarian, have my definitions, my lines of demarcation between the two. My definitions of Occidentalism are four in number. Any nation which fails in one or more of them is on the Oriental side of the line. The four items are: "(1) _The distinction between spiritual and temporal power--the mutual independence of Religion and Government._ The form of religion or the form of government does not and cannot decide the question. Thus in Russia the Greek Christian Church is Oriental because it makes itself one with the State and is used by the State as a club to keep the subjects of the State in political subjugation. "(2) _The recognition of the equal value of woman and man._ Occidentalism feels that woman and man are different but does not feel that man is superior to woman. Discussions of the _differences_ between man and woman sometimes occur in Occidental countries as was the case in the late disputes in England as to woman's fitness for politics. There was no implication that man was an animal superior to woman. In Occidentalism woman and man are considered equal before the law and in the eyes of God, while in Orientalism women are often little better than slaves and in some eastern religions are not supposed after death to go to heaven.