General BOTHA: I understand that quite well; but the possibility exists that syndicates may be formed to buy up all debts, and the people be ruined before a single burgher is in a position to earn something or to establish his position. Lord KITCHENER: I quite agree with the Commandant General, and he does right to raise this question. But I do not believe that the draft contract is the place in which to bring the question forward. When there is peace, it is the duty of everyone to draw the attention of the Government to what is necessary to help the people. But to imagine difficulties now, and to try to put them right, appears to me to be an endless matter, for which this document is not intended. Chief Commandant DE WET: I understand that this is something that must be settled by a proclamation, but I want to have as many weapons as possible in my hand when I go back to the Delegates; and one of the first questions which they will put is: "What guarantees have we that we shall not be ruined by our creditors?" And what objection is there that a draft proclamation be given to us to take to Vereeniging, which will be promulgated as soon as peace is concluded? Lord KITCHENER: But this will be something apart from this agreement. Chief Commandant DE WET: Yes. Lord MILNER: What is the good of it then? Chief Commandant DE WET: It is such a vital question for us that it cannot be taken amiss in us if we insist upon it, because we must give up everything. Lord KITCHENER: Of course no one takes it amiss in you. Lord MILNER: But I must point out without taking it amiss in anyone that the effect of what you propose would be that another clause would have to be embodied in the draft contract undertaking to promulgate such a proclamation. Lord KITCHENER: I believe that if the Delegates received the assurance that the Government will take this matter into consideration in the interests of their subjects, whom they must protect, that this will be sufficient for them. There will be no written obligation, but only an obligation that the matter will be considered. It is not advisable to press this matter with the Government, after it has been brought before them. The opinions of the burghers will be brought before Lord Milner in other ways also. Chief Commandant DE WET: There are many other small points which we could take up, which it would, however, not be desirable to do, but we are now speaking of a vital question. Lord KITCHENER: This is one of those questions which, if brought to the attention of the Government, cannot be set aside. And you may inform the burghers that their interests will be protected as much as possible. I think that this ought to be sufficient for you on such a complicated matter. What is spoken here is being taken down, and the minutes will be considered not only here, but also in England. Are you satisfied with that? General BOTHA: As far as I am personally concerned, yes. Chief Commandant DE WET: So am I.