Lord MILNER: I do not believe that the British Government is prepared to go further to meet you than they have gone in their last proposals. In their opinion they went far on the way to peace, further than the views of the British public. Lord KITCHENER: The difference between our proposals, appears to me, to be too wide. General BOTHA: We always remain under the supervision of the British Government. Lord KITCHENER: Will you then consider yourselves as British subjects? "Supervision" is a new word, and "Suzerainty" has given us too much trouble. General HERTZOG: The idea is not so new. There are, indeed, various kinds of States which all belong to the British Empire, Basutoland, for instance. Lord MILNER: There are various kinds, but this is a new kind. General HERTZOG: I trust Your Excellencies will understand us. We came here not to lose a minute of time. We have been to the people. We know what the people want and what the spirit prevailing amongst them is. If we therefore hand in a proposal we have to take two matters into consideration: (1) A proposal that will meet the British Government in a reasonable manner; and (2) A proposal which we have reasonable ground for believing our people will accept. For these reasons we have submitted a proposal, and now we are in the disadvantageous position that we are here before Your Excellencies, who have not full authority to decide finally. Lord KITCHENER: We are in the same position as you. General HERTZOG: We suggest something which we know to be in accordance with the spirit of our people, but it is impossible for us to do something that is contrary to that spirit. Lord MILNER: Must we understand that the Middelburg proposals are not in the spirit of what your people wish? General SMUTS: No answer has yet been given thereon. The only resolution taken by the meeting of representatives is that which we have submitted here. Lord KITCHENER: Are you prepared to drop your proposal and to hand in another nearer to the Middelburg proposals? We must try to find a middle way. If we are here to try to arrive at something, let us try to get something that we can discuss. Shall we make a new proposal? General SMUTS: If there is a final answer to our proposal, then we can take into consideration the question of putting forward a new one. Lord MILNER: I believe the fact that you have refused to entertain the proposals from the British Government does not justify us to deal with your proposal. No, let us say that your reply is contained therein. General SMUTS: I understand the position as follows: The British Government has rejected our proposals, and at the same they point to the old basis but without precluding us from making new proposals.