"You can never teach them, except by the slow lesson of habit. The Heptarchy didn't mould itself into a nation in a day." "Men were governed then, and could be and were moulded. I feel sure that even in Ireland there is a stratum of men, above the working peasants, who would understand, and make those below them understand, the position of the country, if they could only be got to give up fighting about religion. Even now Home Rule is regarded by the multitude as a weapon to be used against Protestantism on behalf of the Pope." "I suppose the Pope is the great sinner?" "They got over the Pope in France,--even in early days, before religion had become a farce in the country. They have done so in Italy." "Yes;--they've got over the Pope in Italy, certainly." "And yet," said Phineas, "the bulk of the people are staunch Catholics. Of course the same attempt to maintain a temporal influence, with the hope of recovering temporal power, is made in other countries. But while we see the attempt failing elsewhere,--so that we know that the power of the Church is going to the wall,--yet in Ireland it is infinitely stronger now than it was fifty, or even twenty years ago." "Because we have been removing restraints on Papal aggression, while other nations have been imposing restraints. There are those at Rome who believe all England to be Romish at heart, because here in England a Roman Catholic can say what he will, and print what he will." "And yet," said Phineas, "all England does not return one Catholic to the House, while we have Jews in plenty. You have a Jew among your English judges, but at present not a single Roman Catholic. What do you suppose are the comparative numbers of the population here in England?" "And you are going to cure all this;--while Tyrone thinks it ought to be left as it is? I rather agree with Tyrone." "No," said Phineas, wearily; "I doubt whether I shall ever cure anything, or even make any real attempt. My patriotism just goes far enough to make me unhappy, and Lord Tyrone thinks that while Dublin ladies dance at the Castle, and the list of agrarian murders is kept low, the country is admirably managed. I don't quite agree with him;--that's all."