The cardinal shook his head. "Christ's enemies! Indeed, you know little of them, Count. The Muslim holy book, the Koran, reveres Jesus and His mother, Mary. Our sacred places are sacred to them also. Emperor Frederic von Hohenstaufen had the right idea. He made a treaty with the Saracens. If the crusaders in Syria had not broken it, pilgrims would be happily walking in the footsteps of Our Lord to this day." _Von Hohenstaufen._ Simon remembered the hatred in the voices of de Verceuil and le Gros when they spoke of the house of Hohenstaufen. "The crusades were a mistake from the very beginning," Ugolini went on. Having heard harrowing tales from men who had been there of King Louis's disastrous defeat fourteen years before in Egypt, Simon found it hard to challenge Ugolini's assertion. But history could not be undone, and with the help of the Tartars, might this not be the one great crusade that would make any more crusades unnecessary? "We still hold Acre and Tripoli and Antioch and Cyprus," Simon said. "The Templars and the Hospitallers have their castles along the coast. Think of all the men who have died just to get and keep that much. And if we do not beat the Saracens now, they will surely choose their moment and take those last footholds of ours." Ugolini stood up and walked slowly, red satin robe whispering, to a small door behind his table. The door was slightly ajar, and Ugolini looked into the next room. Was there someone in there, Simon wondered, listening to this conversation? _I am getting in deeper and deeper. What if my words could somehow be used against me, or against the alliance? I should never have come here._ Whatever he saw beyond the door seemed to satisfy Ugolini. He turned, smiling. "Count, I am going to suggest something to you that I am sure will shock you at first: Perhaps we should leave the Holy Land in peace." Simon felt troubled, but, having heard much the same thing from his parents--and, indeed, from some of the knights at the royal palace when King Louis was out of hearing--he was not shocked. But for himself he had never been able to reconcile such views with his sense of his obligations as a Christian. Even so, he began to see why de Verceuil had spoken of Ugolini as if he were a heretic. How could a man with such opinions get to be a cardinal? "To leave the Holy Land in the hands of the infidels, Your Eminence? Would it not betray Our Lord Himself?"