“What then,” said he, “is not Evenus a philosopher?” “To me he seems to be so,” said Simmias. “Then he will be willing,” rejoined Socrates, “and so will every one who worthily engages in this study; perhaps indeed he will not commit violence on himself, for that they say is not allowable.” And as he said this he let down his leg from the bed on the ground, and in this posture continued during the remainder of the discussion. Cebes then asked him, “What do you mean, Socrates, by saying that it is not lawful to commit violence on one’s-self, but that a philosopher should be willing to follow one who is dying?” 14. “What, Cebes, have not you and Simmias, who have conversed familiarly with Philolaus[26] on this subject, heard?” ----- Footnote 26: A Pythagorean of Crotona. ----- “Nothing very clearly, Socrates.” “I however speak only from hearsay; what then I have heard I have no scruple in telling. And perhaps it is most becoming for one who is about to travel there, to enquire and speculate about the journey thither, what kind we think it is. What else can one do in the interval before sunset?” “Why then, Socrates, do they say that it is not allowable to kill one’s-self? for I, as you asked just now, have heard both Philolaus, when he lived with us, and several others say that it was not right to do this; but I never heard any thing clear upon the subject from any one.” 15. “Then you should consider it attentively,” said Socrates, “for perhaps you may hear: probably however, it will appear wonderful to you, if this alone of all other things is an universal truth[27], and it never happens to a man, as is the case in all other things, that at sometimes and to some persons only it is better to die than to live; yet that these men for whom it is better to die—this probably will appear wonderful to you—may not without impiety do this good to themselves, but must await another benefactor.” ----- Footnote 27: Namely, “that it is better to die than live.” ----- 16. Then Cebes, gently smiling, said, speaking in his own dialect[28], “Jove be witness.” ----- Footnote 28: Ἴττω Bœotian for ἴστω. ----- “And indeed,” said Socrates, “it would appear to be unreasonable, yet still perhaps it has some reason on its side. The maxim indeed given on this subject in the mystical doctrines[29], that we men are in a kind of prison, and that we ought not to free ourselves from it and escape, appears to me difficult to be understood, and not easy to penetrate. This however appears to me, Cebes, to be well said, that the gods take care of us, and that we men are one of their possessions. Does it not seem so to you?” ----- Footnote 29: Of Pythagoras. ----- “It does,” replied Cebes. “Therefore,” said he, “if one of your slaves were to kill himself, without your having intimated that you wished him to die, should you not be angry with him, and should you not punish him if you could?” “Certainly,” he replied.