Defendants' counsel objected to the question and answer. _The Court_: _Q._ What do you mean by port dues? _A._ I mean they do not have to enter into the custom-house to pay port-charges. It is not a port of entry, that compels them to carry their papers. The only port-charges I know of are the pilot-charges, in and out. (The Court ruled it out as immaterial.) _Cross-examined by Mr. Brady._ _Q._ I want, for the purpose of preventing any misapprehension, to ask if there is any line that you know of, which you could draw upon that map, distinguishing the place at which Hampton Roads begins? _A._ Nothing only among sea-faring men;--just as the lower bay of New York, which is considered to be down below the Southwest Spit. When anchored between this and that, it is called off a particular place, as Coney Island, &c. So, there, after you pass up from Fortress Monroe, it is called Hampton Roads. _Q._ Is there any specific point you can draw a line from on the map that distinctly indicates where Hampton Roads begin? _A._ I cannot, sir. _Q._ Designate where the Harriet Lane was? _A._ I cannot say, sir. She was at Newport News when I left, and came down the next day, I believe, and took the prisoners on board and proceeded to New York. _Q._ The Minnesota was anchored? _A._ Yes, sir, but not moored; with a single anchor. _Q._ How much cable was out? _A._ From 65 to 70 fathoms, I think. I generally order 65 fathoms; but the captain gave her 5 fathoms more. _Q._ Would she swing far enough to affect the question whether she was in or outside of Hampton Roads, as you understood it? _A._ No, sir. _Q._ Had you often been there before? _A._ I had, sir, often. I was there 51 years ago. I started there. _Q._ Did you ever have occasion, for any practical purposes, to locate where Hampton Roads began? _A._ Yes, sir; several times I have anchored there with ships under my command, and the pilots have said, "Will you go up into the Roads?" and I said, "Yes;" and we never anchored within two or three miles of where we lay with the Minnesota. _Q._ But it was not your object to get at any particular line which separated Hampton Roads? _A._ No; we considered it a better anchorage. The only importance was a better anchorage. _Q._ You had no instructions of any kind in regard to the prisoners before you left for Washington? _A._ I would say I had not, before I arrived at Hampton Roads, or at Old Point. _Q._ Did you receive any between the time of your arrival and your departure for Washington? _A._ I cannot say, but I think not. _Q._ The only instructions you gave were that, when the Harriet Lane came up, the prisoners should be removed, and sent to New York? _A._ I gave orders that they should be sent to New York and delivered to the Marshal. _Q._ There would be no difficulty to transfer prisoners to Fortress Monroe? _A._ No, sir, no difficulty. _Q._ Could they not have been taken to Hampton?