Have you not found emphysema in the cases of the animals that have died?--Yes. It has always been from a rupture of the cells. It could be in no other way. What is there in the statement of witnesses which makes you think there was emphysema of the other sort?--There was during life a diseased condition of the lungs. I am speaking of the appearance of the lungs after death?--I must put the whole together. Would it not have been desirable to know whether this emphysema was natural or whether it was from rupture? We heard the witnesses here who made the post-mortem examination?--If the question had been put to them. But you were advising my friends throughout, while Dr. Harland was here, and you heard what he said. Did it occur to you it was proper to ask him what was the nature of those?--No, because I heard (which was sufficient to my mind) that disease had existed. The question was put, as to the disease, to Dr. Savage. I am speaking of this emphysema?--It did not occur to me. You have told us the various symptoms about this gentleman, from which you gather he was of a delicate constitution. To which do you ascribe these convulsions of which he died?--Not to any. I understood you to say that the fact of his having syphilis was an important ingredient in your mind?--Yes, but you ask for convulsions. You have no doubt he died of convulsions?--No. You entered into a long detail of the various ailments under which this unfortunate man suffered, and you say that this would predispose him to convulsions. I ask you which of them?--The whole; the continuation of them. Amongst others you mentioned excitement?--Yes, and depression of spirits. What evidence is there, on which you rely, of his being a man subject to depression of spirits?--It is stated by Mr. Jones that he was subject to depression of spirits--mental depression. There was a good deal of mental depression at Rugeley. Would you expect excitement to produce its effects recently in its existence, or after it was totally and entirely gone?--It may induce that state of brain in which convulsions will follow at some distance. Did you find from the evidence that the brain was perfectly healthy?--No, not perfectly healthy. Mr. Bamford said it was not. [Sidenote: T. Nunneley] Do you mean, as against the reputed testimony, and the testimony here of Dr. Harland and Dr. Moncton, as well as Mr. Devonshire, to set up the testimony of that old gentleman, Mr. Bamford?--The evidence stated at the inquest itself is put in the depositions. Do you mean to say, in your opinion, that excitement, producing disease of the brain, would bring on these convulsions?--I mean to say this, that in the condition of the brain, and the statement that has been made, I believe it to be quite probable that convulsions might come on and destroy a person, and leave no trace behind. Do you believe that this man died of apoplexy?--I do not. You must bear in mind he had taken doses of morphia.