Mr. ROWLAND. Another 5 minutes. Mr. SPECTER. So that you observed this colored man on the window you have marked "A" within 5 minutes prior to the time the motorcade passed in front of you? Mr. ROWLAND. Approximately 5 minutes prior to the time the motorcade came, he wasn't there. About 30 seconds or a minute prior to that time he was there. Mr. SPECTER. A few moments ago in your testimony you stated that in observing policemen in the area you had observed some officers on the overpass? Mr. ROWLAND. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. Approximately how far were you from the overpass at that time? Mr. ROWLAND. 125 yards approximately. Mr. SPECTER. Were you able to observe with clarity the individuals who were standing on the overpass? Mr. ROWLAND. Not with detailed distinction. I do remember there were three women there, two or three men, a couple of boys, and two officers on the overpass itself. Mr. SPECTER. How did you identify the officers as being policemen? Mr. ROWLAND. They were uniformed officers. Mr. SPECTER. What kind of uniforms were they wearing? Mr. ROWLAND. Blue; I think trimmed in gold, uniforms. Mr. SPECTER. Are those the regular uniforms worn by the Dallas police? Mr. ROWLAND. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. Where were you standing at the time you observed the people on the overpass whom you have just described? Mr. ROWLAND. Position "B." Mr. SPECTER. At about what time was it when you observed those individuals? Mr. ROWLAND. This was between the time between 12:15 and 12:30. I think I looked more than once. Mr. SPECTER. How many times did you look? Mr. ROWLAND. I don't know really. I was more or less scanning the crowd. Mr. SPECTER. Did the individuals present on the triple overpass change at the various times when you looked in that direction? Mr. ROWLAND. I don't think so. I don't think anyone went off who was up there or anyone else went on. Mr. SPECTER. Will you now relate what occurred as the Presidential motorcade passed by you? Mr. ROWLAND. Well, the car turned the corner at Houston and Main. Everyone was rushing, pressing the cars, trying to get closer. There were quite a few people, you know, trying to run alongside of the car such as this; officers were trying to prevent this. The car turned--we had more or less a long period of time that they were within our sight considering some of the other people. The car went down Houston, again turned on Elm, and it was proceeding down Elm when we heard the first of the reports. This I passed off as a backfire, so did practically everyone in the area because gobs of people, when I say gobs, I mean almost everyone in the vicinity, started laughing that couldn't see the motorcade. The motorcade was obscured from our vision by the crowd. Mr. SPECTER. What would the occasion be for laughter on the sound of a backfire?