Mr. ROWLAND. Well, I began looking, I didn't look at the building mainly, and as practically any of the police officers that were there then will tell you, the echo effect was such that it sounded like it came from the railroad yards. That is where I looked, that is where all the policemen, everyone, converged on the railroads. Mr. SPECTER. When you say railroad yards, what area are you referring to? Identify it on Commission Exhibit No. 354, for example? Mr. ROWLAND. In this area in here. Now most of the officers converged on this area---- Mr. SPECTER. When you say "in here," I will get a black pencil here and see if we can draw a circle around the area where you have described the echo effect? Mr. ROWLAND. The echo effect felt as though it came from this general vicinity. Mr. SPECTER. Mark that with the letter "C" in the center of your circle. (Witness marking.) Mr. SPECTER. Now, as to the second shot, did you have any impression as to the point of origin or source? Mr. ROWLAND. The same point or very close to it. Mr. SPECTER. And how about the third shot? Mr. ROWLAND. Very close to the same position. Mr. SPECTER. Where did you look, if you recall, after you heard the first shot, in what direction? Mr. ROWLAND. We were standing here at position "B." At the sound of the second report, I proceeded across the street. My wife was very anxious to find out what was going on. I proceeded to cross the street like this. Mr. SPECTER. Indicating you were--she was pulling you ahead? Mr. ROWLAND. Yes. She was very anxious to find out what was going on. Mr. SPECTER. That was at the sound of the second report? Mr. ROWLAND. Yes, it was. Mr. SPECTER. And will you mark with this black pencil, with the letter "D," where you went to, as she pulled you across the street? Mr. ROWLAND. We crossed the street in this area, proceeded down the sidewalk, around here, there was quite a bit of crowd, people were running. Mr. SPECTER. Where were you at the time that you heard the second report? Mr. ROWLAND. At the second report we were approximately at the curb, out from the curb, we were off the sidewalk. Mr. SPECTER. At point "V"? Mr. ROWLAND. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. How about the third shot, where were you then? Mr. ROWLAND. At the third shot I was in this vicinity halfway to where we crossed the street to the end of the block. Mr. SPECTER. Would you indicate with the letter "D" where you were at the time of the third shot? (Witness marking.) Mr. SPECTER. Where did you look when you heard the third report? Mr. ROWLAND. Well, we were trying to actually see the President's car, that is what my wife was trying to do, and then I decided I might as well give in to her. Mr. SPECTER. After the shots occurred, did you ever look back at the Texas School Book Depository Building? Mr. ROWLAND. No; I did not. In fact, I went over toward the scene of the railroad yards myself.