Mr. WILLIAMS. I could not say for sure. I do not remember. Mr. BALL. Did you notice--where did you think the shots came from? Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, the first shot--I really did not pay any attention to it, because I did not know what was happening. The second shot, it sounded like it was right in the building, the second and third shot. And it sounded--it even shook the building, the side we were on. Cement fell on my head. Mr. BALL. You say cement fell on your head? Mr. WILLIAMS. Cement, gravel, dirt, or something, from the old building, because it shook the windows and everything. Harold was sitting next to me, and he said it came right from over our head. If you want to know my exact words, I could tell you. Mr. BALL. Tell us. Mr. WILLIAMS. My exact words were, "No bull shit." And we jumped up. Mr. BALL. Norman said what? Mr. WILLIAMS. He said it came directly over our heads. "I can even hear the shell being ejected from the gun hitting the floor." But I did not hear the shell being ejected from the gun, probably because I wasn't paying attention. Mr. BALL. Norman said he could hear it? Mr. WILLIAMS. He said he could hear it. He was directly under the window that Oswald shot from. Mr. BALL. He was directly under. He told you as he got up from the window that he could hear the shells ejected from the gun? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; he did. Mr. BALL. After he made the statement that you mentioned, he thought it came from overhead, and you made some statement, did Jarman say anything? Mr. WILLIAMS. I think Jarman, he--I think he moved before any of us. He moved towards us, and he said, "Man, somebody is shooting at the President." And I think I said again. "No bull shit." And then we all kind of got excited, you know, and, as I remember, I don't remember him saying that he thought the shots came from overhead. But we all decided we would run down to the west side of the building. Mr. BALL. You ran down to the west side of the building? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Representative FORD. Ran down to the west side? You mean you were still on the fifth floor? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; we were on the fifth floor, the east side of the building. We saw the policemen and people running, scared, running--there are some tracks on the west side of the building, railroad tracks. They were running towards that way. And we thought maybe--well, to ourself, we know the shots practically came from over our head. But since everybody was running, you know, to the west side of the building, towards the railroad tracks, we assumed maybe somebody was down there. And so we all ran that way, the way that the people was running, and we was looking out the window. Mr. BALL. When the cement fell on your head, did either one of the men notice it and say anything about it? Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I believe Harold was the first one. Mr. BALL. That is Hank Norman?