Mr. TRULY. No, sir; he did not. He just told me that he just recently was discharged from the Marines with an honorable discharge. And I suppose that if he had had some background of a few jobs, skipping here and there, I might have investigated those jobs thoroughly. Mr. DULLES. He did not tell you about those short-time jobs he had? Mr. TRULY. No. The thing is I thought he was just discharged from the service, and we have worked with boys in the past, and they have gone on and got on their feet and got a better job. And I did not give it a thought that he was really just not discharged from the Marines. Mr. BELIN. Mr. Truly, you mentioned the fact that you thought Jack Dougherty was the one operating that west elevator. Is that correct? Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN. Could you tell us a little bit about Jack Dougherty? Mr. TRULY. Jack Dougherty has been working for us 12 or 14 years. Until we moved into this building, he has been mostly in our State Department, the building at 1917 North Houston. He would fill orders for--that called for many cartons of books on a three-textbook-order basis to the various schools in Texas. And he seemed to be intelligent and smart and a hard worker. The main thing is he just worked all the time. I have never had any occasion to have any hard words for Jack. A few times he would get a little bit--maybe do a little something wrong, and I would mention it to him, and he would just go to pieces--not anything--but anything the rest of the day or the next day would not be right. [Deletion.] He is a great big husky fellow. I think he is 39 years old. He has never been married. He has no interest in women. He gets flustered, has a small word for it, at times. He has never had any trouble. He is a good, loyal, hard working employee. He always has been. Mr. BELIN. Would you consider him of average intelligence? Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir. I think what is wrong with him mostly is his emotional makeup. I would say that for the work he is doing, he is of average intelligence. Mr. BELIN. When you got to the fifth floor, as I understand it, the west elevator was not there, but when you started up from the first floor, you thought it was on the fifth floor. Mr. TRULY. No. When I came down from the second floor--from the seventh floor with the officer, I thought I saw Jack Dougherty on the fifth floor, which he would have had plenty of time to move the elevator down and up and get some stock and come back. Mr. BELIN. But when you got to the fifth floor that west elevator was not there? Mr. TRULY. No, sir. Mr. BELIN. Was it on any floor below the fifth floor? Mr. TRULY. I didn't look. Mr. BELIN. As you were climbing up the floors, you did not see it? Mr. TRULY. No, sir. Mr. BELIN. And if it wasn't on the fifth floor when you got there, it could have been on the sixth or seventh, I assume.