Senator COOPER. May I ask a question there? How did you establish the location of the rifle in making those calculations? Mr. SHANEYFELT. The location of the rifle was established on the basis of other testimony and information furnished to us by the Commission, photographs taken by the Dallas Police Department immediately after the assassination, and the known opening of the window. It was an estimation of where the rifle most likely was based on the knowledge that the Commission has through testimony. Mr. SPECTER. Senator Cooper, Mr. Frazier is present and has been sworn, and he is going to identify that. He could do it at this time, to pinpoint that issue. Senator COOPER. I think we can just make a note of that, and go ahead with this witness. Mr. SPECTER. Fine. We will proceed then with this witness and Mr. Frazier will testify in due course. Mr. SHANEYFELT. I might say that this position was determined by Mr. Frazier in the window. We moved the car around until he told us from the window, viewing through the rifle, the point where he wanted the car to stop. And he was the one in the window that told us where the point A was. Once we established that, we then photographed it. Mr. DULLES. Could he see the mark on the back of the coat from the window? Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; through the rifle scope, he could see the mark. Mr. SPECTER. Does the picture designated "photograph through rifle scope" depict the actual view of the rifleman through the actual Mannlicher-Carcano weapon? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. At point A. Senator COOPER. When Mr. Frazier testifies, then, will he correlate this photograph with a frame from photographs taken of the actual motorcade at the time of the assassination? Mr. SHANEYFELT. No; we cannot correlate this with a frame from the motion picture because Mr. Zapruder didn't start taking pictures until the car had passed this point. So we, therefore, on this frame and for the next two or three points, have no picture from Mr. Zapruder, since he wasn't taking pictures at that time. Mr. DULLES. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. DULLES. Back on the record. Do I understand that you are not suggesting that a shot was necessarily fired at this point A, but this was the first point where this particular vision of the President's back could have been obtained? Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. It is only an arbitrary point showing the first possible shot that could have entered the President's coat at this chalk mark. Representative FORD. What criteria did you use for determining that you could see the chalk mark? Was the criteria a part or the whole of the chalk mark? Mr. SHANEYFELT. The actual manner in which it was set up--let me see if this answers your question. As we moved the car around, Mr. Frazier was in the window looking through the actual scope of the rifle, and could see very clearly the President or the man taking the President's place, as the car moved around.