Mr. DILLARD. Channel 5--Darnell, I think his name is, and the driver of the car which I don't believe I remember his name. It was a Chevrolet convertible. Mr. BALL. Your car was about sixth, was it? Mr. DILLARD. I believe. Mr. BALL. From the President's car? Mr. DILLARD. From the President's car. We lost our position out at the airport. I understood we were supposed to have been quite a bit closer. We were assigned as the prime photographic car which, as you probably know, normally a truck precedes the President on these things and certain representatives of the photographic press ride with the truck. In this case, as you know, we didn't have any and this car that I was in was to take any photographs which was of spot-news nature. Mr. BALL. As you turned from Main Street onto Houston, was the President's car in sight at that time? Mr. DILLARD. No; and the whole parade, the whole trip to town, I could only distinguish the President's car on very few occasions in high rises in the ground, when we got on hills. It was difficult because the people in the cars ahead of me were sitting on the backs of cars which pretty well covered the President's car for me. We had a very, very poor view of the President's car at any time from the time the parade started. Mr. BALL. Can you tell me whether or not the President's car had made the turn off Houston Street when your car turned north on Houston? Mr. DILLARD. It had. Mr. BALL. It had? Mr. DILLARD. No; I won't say it had. I think it had because, like I say, I could never see the car very well. I believe it had. Mr. BALL. Where were you sitting in the car? Mr. DILLARD. I was sitting in the right front. Mr. BALL. Who was in the front seat with you? Mr. DILLARD. Oh, I don't remember; I think Jackson was sitting beside me--no; I believe Jackson was sitting in the back. I don't remember what our locations were. Mr. BALL. But you know you were in the right front? Mr. DILLARD. Yeah. Mr. BALL. Did you hear something unusual as you were driving north on Houston? Mr. DILLARD. Yes; I heard an explosion which I made the comment that I believe, in my memory, I believe I said, "My God, they've thrown a torpedo" and why I said "torpedo", I don't know. If you wish, I'll go ahead---- Mr. BALL. Go ahead with your story. Mr. DILLARD. Well, then I later estimated, immediately later, estimated, oh, 4, about 3 or 4 seconds, another explosion and my comment was, "No, It's heavy rifle fire," and I remember very distinctly I said, "It's very heavy rifle fire." Mr. BALL. How many explosions did you hear? Mr. DILLARD. I heard three--the three approximately equally spaced. Mr. BALL. What is the best estimate of the position of your car with reference to the turn at Main and Houston when you heard the first explosion?