Mrs. HILL. I didn't notice. It was a brown, I mean, I just got the impression of a brown hat. Mr. SPECTER. Can you give me an estimate of his age? Mrs. HILL. I would say the man was middle aged, or say, I would say 40. Mr. SPECTER. Was he a white man or a Negro? Mrs. HILL. He was a white man. Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe him in any other way to me? Mrs. HILL. No; I can't. Mr. SPECTER. Do you think he was, in fact, Jack Ruby? Mrs. HILL. That, I don't know. Mr. SPECTER. Now, have you told me all that you can recollect about this man and your reason for moving toward him? Mrs. HILL. Yes, as far as I know. Mr. SPECTER. Now, you were at point "D," what did you do after being at point "D," which we have marked on the diagram? Mrs. HILL. Well, as I said, the policemen were coming by that time from different areas, coming and closing this place off, and I was dodging them, trying to get back across the street. Mr. SPECTER. Back across Elm Street? Mrs. HILL. That's right. Mr. SPECTER. And did you in fact dodge them? Mrs. HILL. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. And get back across Elm Street? Mrs. HILL. Yes. Mr. SPECTER. And what, if anything, did you do next? Mrs. HILL. There was a man holding Mary's arm and she was crying and he had hold of her camera trying to take it with him. Mr. SPECTER. Who was that? Mrs. HILL. Featherstone of the Times Herald, and---- Mr. SPECTER. Dallas Times Herald? Mrs. HILL. That's right. I ran up there and told him we had to leave. She had been impressing upon me for an hour and a half--we hadn't even gone down to see the President that day--we had been doing other things and we got down there and we just decided we would stay, but she had been impressing upon me for an hour and a half, the whole time we had been there, that we had to beat the traffic out of there, and she knows her way around real well, so I knew she could get out and we could beat the traffic, and we were just going to run for the car as fast as we could. It was parked up here on Houston. We were going to run and get out of there before the people started milling around so we wouldn't be in that traffic, and I don't know--we had been talking about it so long and she had drilled me so much, that we must get out of here, and when I came back and I found her crying and him standing there holding her camera, and holding her, I mean holding her by the arm and her camera, and telling her she had to go with him, I started trying to shake his hand loose and grab the camera and telling him that "No, we wouldn't go, we had to leave," and I guess by that time I was beginning--until then I have no conscious feeling of any scaredness or excitement or anything. I mean, you know, it is just like something that's passing in front of you, and I mean, I wasn't worried or upset in any way until I got back there and then I had a sense of urgency. I just knew I wanted to get out of there and all I could think of--and I don't think