Mr. SPECTER. And what, in lay language, does that facet of medicine involve? Dr. BASHOUR. Kidney diseases. Mr. SPECTER. Did Dr. Seldin accompany you into the emergency room where President Kennedy was located? Dr. BASHOUR. We went to the room together and then I was left alone because this is a problem--a heart problem. Mr. SPECTER. Did Dr. Seldin remain in the room with you? Dr. BASHOUR. Well, he came and stayed for--he just left the room after we came in. Mr. SPECTER. How long did he stay in the room? Dr. BASHOUR. A few seconds. Mr. SPECTER. Who was present in the room when you arrived? Dr. BASHOUR. When I arrived, Dr. Kemp Clark was doing the cardiac massage on the President, Dr. Jenkins was in charge of controlling artificial respiration of the President, and the probably there were some three or four--I don't remember. Mr. SPECTER. And what did you observe the President's condition to be at the time you arrived? Dr. BASHOUR. The President was lying on the stretcher, the head wound was massive, the blood was dripping from the head, and at that time the President had an endotracheal tube, and his pupils were dilated, his eyes were staring, and they were not reactive, there was no pulsations, his heart sounds were not present, and his extremities were cold. Then, we attached the scope--the cardioscope and there was a flip, this was probably artificial. Upon stopping the cardiac machine, there was no cardiac activity. That means the heart was standing still. We continued cardiac massage and still there was no cardiac activities, so the President was declared dead shortly thereafter. Mr. SPECTER. At approximately what time was he declared dead? Dr. BASHOUR. Well, according to my notes, we said here, "Declared dead about 12:55," or so. Mr. SPECTER. Was that a precise time fixed or was that just a general approximation? Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir; approximation. Mr. SPECTER. When you refer to the "flip" what do you mean by that, Dr. Bashour? Dr. BASHOUR. On the scope--some change in the baseline of the scope. Mr. SPECTER. Did that indicate some activity in the President's heart? Dr. BASHOUR. No, sir; not necessarily. Mr. SPECTER. What else could have accounted for the flip besides that? Dr. BASHOUR. Anything extraneous could have accounted for that. Mr. SPECTER. So, you require a number of flips before you inquire if there is heart activity? Dr. BASHOUR. Well, it depends on the configuration of the flip--if the flip resembles an electrocardiogram activity--it shows cardiac activity. Mr. SPECTER. Was that configuration of the flip like heart activity or not? Dr. BASHOUR. It wasn't, as far as I know. Mr. SPECTER. That is your field, is it not, you read those flips? Dr. BASHOUR. Well, it's my field to see the electrocardiograms; yes. Mr. SPECTER. And, in your professional opinion, the flip which you saw was not a conclusive indicator of heart activity?