Mr. APPLIN. No; I didn't. Mr. BALL. Ever seen him since? Mr. APPLIN. No, sir; didn't. I tapped him on the shoulder and said, "Buddy, you'd better move," and---- Mr. BALL. Were you scared? Mr. APPLIN. Well, when I seen the gun I was. Mr. BALL. Did you tell the police officer about this man? Mr. APPLIN. No, sir; at the time, I didn't think about it, but I did tell--I didn't even think about it when I went before the Secret Service man, but I did tell one of the FBI men about it. Mr. BALL. Okay. I guess that is all, Mr. Applin. Thank you very much. Mr. APPLIN. All right. TESTIMONY OF RAY HAWKINS The testimony of Ray Hawkins was taken at 9:50 a.m., on April 3, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Mr. BALL. Will you raise your hand and take the oath, please? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. HAWKINS. I do. Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please? Mr. HAWKINS. Ray Hawkins. Mr. BALL. And your address, where do you live now? Mr. HAWKINS. 7319 Cortland as of today. I am moving today. Mr. BALL. What is your business or occupation? Mr. HAWKINS. I am with the Dallas Police Department. I am an accident investigator. Mr. BALL. How long have you been with the Dallas Police Department? Mr. HAWKINS. It will be 11 years in June. Mr. BALL. Tell me something about yourself--where you were born and your education and what you have done? Mr. HAWKINS. I was born in Dallas at Parkland Hospital. I attended the Dallas schools except for 2 years when I lived in Denison and I served 3 years and 4 months in the Coast Guard. I worked at the post office after getting out of the service and then I worked for Dallas Power & Light before coming to the police department some 11 years ago. I have been in the traffic division 8 years last month, which my primary duty is accident investigation. Before this time I served about 3 years in the radio patrol division. Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, you were on duty, were you? Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; I was. Mr. BALL. What were your hours of duty? Mr. HAWKINS. I was working the 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. shift that day. Mr. BALL. And were you assigned some special duty because of the presence of the President in the city? Mr. HAWKINS. No, sir; on this day I was working accidents, which is my regular duty. I was working with an officer by the name of Elmer Baggett who had just transferred back into accident and I was giving him a refresher course in the regular duties of accident investigation. Mr. BALL. Do you work in uniform? Mr. HAWKINS. Yes, sir; I do. Mr. BALL. In the regular patrolman's uniform? Mr. HAWKINS. Yes. Mr. BALL. Of the Dallas Police Department? Mr. HAWKINS. Yes--the regular patrolman uniform.