Mr. BALL. All right. Fine. Thank you very much. TESTIMONY OF RICHARD M. SIMS The testimony of Richard M. Sims was taken at 10:20 a.m., on April 6, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Messrs. Joseph A. Ball, John Hart Ely, and Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Dr. Alfred Goldberg, historian, was present. Mr. BALL. Will you stand up and be sworn? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. SIMS. I do. Mr. BALL. Will you state your name, please? Mr. SIMS. Richard M. Sims. Mr. BALL. And what is your business or occupation? Mr. SIMS. Police department, city of Dallas. Mr. BALL. And what is your position with the police department? Mr. SIMS. Detective in the homicide and robbery bureau since August 2, 1948. Mr. BALL. Will you tell me something about yourself, where you were born and educated and what you have done before you went with the police department? Mr. SIMS. I was born and raised here in Dallas and I went to school--grade school in Dallas, but moved out to a little city called Hutchins, south of Dallas, and finished my education out there, and joined the Navy when I was 17, and was discharged when I was 21, and I came to work down here when I was 23. Mr. BALL. With the police department? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. And you have been with them ever since? Mr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. BALL. And you have been with homicide how long? Mr. SIMS. Since September 1957. Mr. BALL. On November 22, 1963, what were your hours of duty? Mr. SIMS. Well, actually, my hours of duty were from 4 to midnight, but because the President was going to be in Dallas, I came to work early because we was assigned with Captain Fritz to be down at the Trade Mart when the President arrived. Mr. BALL. What time did you go to the Trade Mart? Mr. SIMS. It was around 10 o'clock, I believe. Mr. BALL. In the morning? Mr. SIMS. Yes, sir; 10 a.m.--Captain Fritz and Boyd and I. Mr. BALL. Where were you when you heard the President had been shot? Mr. SIMS. We were at the President's table. Chief Stevenson called Captain Fritz over and told him the President had been involved in an accident. Mr. BALL. That was about what time of day? Mr. SIMS. That was about 12:40, I believe, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you do then? Mr. SIMS. Chief Stevenson told us to go to the hospital. Parkland Hospital, so we did. Mr. BALL. Whom did you go with? Mr. SIMS. Captain Fritz and Boyd and I, and I drove. Mr. BALL. Captain Fritz is the head of homicide squadron, isn't he? Mr. SIMS. Yes. Mr. BALL. And Boyd is your partner? Mr. SIMS. Yes; Boyd is my partner since 1957. Mr. BALL. And what did you do over there when you got to Parkland?