Mr. GIBSON. I don't know this, as I said, for a fact--this is what a lady at the show told me. She sent Butch, the head usher up on the stage to guard the exit back there and where he come from I don't know, because as I said, when they took him to the floor, then I turned around and walked out into the lobby and one officer hollered, "Lock the doors," and Butch came through there to the doors. Mr. BALL. But you didn't see other officers go up to any other patrons of the theatre over there on their way to Oswald? Mr. GIBSON. No. Mr. BALL. As they went along--they finally walked up and outside? Mr. GIBSON. No; they were just looking in general it appeared to me. Mr. BALL. Was there anyone who was sitting closer to them than Oswald was? Mr. GIBSON. Gosh--I don't know--it's hard to remember, when you try. Mr. BALL. You don't know why they went up to him and not someone else? Mr. GIBSON. Well, as I said--I don't think they went up to him. As I said, the first time I saw him in the theatre definitely was when he was standing in the aisle with a gun in his hand. Now, somebody told me that Oswald jumped up and whirled around and said, "This is it," but this is something I don't know, so this is hearsay. Mr. BALL. But would you think he stood up first before any police officer got to him? Or that near him? Mr. GIBSON. He had to, because they took him from a standing position to the floor and he was standing up. Mr. BALL. Did you see them before they came up to him? Mr. GIBSON. Yes; I was watching them there, I was just standing in the corner--as I said, just looking around the corner--there is a chance you can see in the corner and I was looking around it and as I said, I don't know whether he got up and whirled around or what he did, but when I saw him he was facing the police with a gun in his hand. Mr. BALL. The first you saw him he was standing? Mr. GIBSON. He was standing. Mr. BALL. And you didn't hear him say anything except on his way out? Mr. GIBSON. Except on his way out--is the only thing I heard him say. Mr. BALL. This will be written up and you can come down and sign it if you want to, or you can waive your signature. What would you like to do? Mr. GIBSON. Well, I said it, I might as well sign it. Mr. BALL. Okay. You will be called in to come down and sign it. Mr. GIBSON. Thanks very much. Mr. BALL. Thank you. TESTIMONY OF JAMES PUTNAM The testimony of James Putnam was taken at 11 a.m., on April 9, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. John Hart Ely, member of the staff of the President's Commission. Mr. ELY. Would you stand up and be sworn, please? Mr. PUTNAM. All right. Mr. ELY. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. PUTNAM. I do. Mr. ELY. Would you state your name, please? Mr. PUTNAM. James Putnam.