Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. He kept on repeating that he was not a Communist. I asked him point blank, "Are you a member of the Communist Party?" And he said no. He said, "I am a Marxist." Kept on repeating it. Mr. JENNER. Did you ask him what he meant by that? Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I never frankly asked him to elaborate on that, because again, you know the word "Marxism" is very boring to me. Just the sound of that word is boring to me. Mr. JENNER. What impression did you get in that connection as to whether he was seeking some mean or middle ground between democracy and what he thought Communism was? Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Possibly he was seeking for something, but knowing what kind of brains he had, and what kind of education, I was not interested in listening to him, because it was nothing, it was zero. Mr. JENNER. I see. It was your impression, then he could contribute nothing? Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. No, he could contribute absolutely nothing except for a remark like that about the meetings, which was just an ordinary remark a person of his intelligence could understand. But when it comes to dialectic materialism, I do not want to hear that word again. Mr. JENNER. Did discussions occur as to his attempted defection? Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. From the United States to Russia? Mr. JENNER. Yes. Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. How it happened? Mr. JENNER. Yes. Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Why it happened and how it happened? Mr. JENNER. Yes. Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes. Mr. JENNER. Tell me about that. Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. A few words I remember now. He said that while he was in Japan he saw tremendous injustice. By that he meant, I think, the poverty of the Japanese working class or the proletariat, as he called them, and the rich people in Japan. He said it was more visible than anywhere else. Now, I have never been in Japan, and I cannot vouch for that. But that is what he told me. And he also told me that he had some contacts with the Japanese Communists in Japan, and they--that got him interested to go and see what goes on in the Soviet Union. Mr. JENNER. Just concentrate on this, please. Tell me everything you can now recall as to what he said about--you used the term, what we lawyers call a conclusion. You said he had some contacts with the Communists in Japan. Now, try and recall what he said or as near---- Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. I see what you mean. Since it was so removed from my interest, I did not insist. I just heard that. Mr. JENNER. Just give me your best recollection. Mr. DE MOHRENSCHILDT. That is all I recall--that he said, "I have met some Communists in Japan and they got me excited and interested, and that was one of my inducements in going to Soviet Russia, to see what goes on there."